Pocket J,J, what would you do??

full tilt poker Game #7743134980: Table Warthen Meadows - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Hold'em - 17:42:07 ET - 2008/08/21
Seat 1: coenyman ($8.40)
Seat 2: MatderHengst ($9.90)
Seat 3: Liisann ($1.70)
Seat 4: rouchisimo ($5.30)
Seat 5: wthr_dude ($4.55)
Seat 6: UGADAWG84 ($10.05)
Seat 7: ghostly_89 ($6)
Seat 8: norbs286 ($3.55)
MatderHengst posts the small blind of $0.05
Liisann posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to norbs286 [Js Jc]
pielas sits down
rouchisimo has 15 seconds left to act
pielas adds $2
UGADAWG84: good slow bet rouch
UGADAWG84: i like that
rouchisimo is sitting out
rouchisimo has timed out
rouchisimo folds
UGADAWG84 folds
ghostly_89 folds
rouchisimo has returned
norbs286 raises to $0.35
coenyman calls $0.35
rouchisimo stands up
MatderHengst has 15 seconds left to act
UGADAWG84: reminds me of myself
Joaogamartins sits down
Joaogamartins adds $2
MatderHengst folds
Liisann folds
*** FLOP *** [Ac Tc 8c]
norbs286 bets $0.40
coenyman calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Ac Tc 8c] [Qs]
norbs286 bets $0.80
coenyman calls $0.80
*** RIVER *** [Ac Tc 8c Qs] [As]
norbs286 checks
coenyman bets $1.30
norbs286 has 15 seconds left to act

Would you call it?! Would you play it differently along the way?

This belongs in the Ring Game Hand Anaylsis Forum

This will help you out: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/hand-analysis-posting-guidelines-87481/

I think the raise on the pre-flop is ok.
But after the flop your opponent could have the better hand.
So I should check here to see if he hit something.
This way he can call you and raise on the river like he did.
If he raises on the flop. It's an easy fold.

''Would you call it?''
No, you don't have the best hand here.

No I personally would'nt call this hand on the river, but forget that you don't state how this player has been playing his strong hands, and weak hands.

I personally would've raised like you did, same amout, but on the flop, did the same bet, when he called, I then would've just checked the turn, and let it go on the river. One way I'd play them

Another way I'd play them is since your OOP, you could've seen a really cheap flop, by this I mean no raising preflop, you check, he bets and you could flat call it or just let it go right there and then.

These are the ways I play JJ but then again everyone plays differently

well when it comes to the river, i would have added the same bet as the turn, but I would have got out after the two over cards on the turn. JJ seem pretty weaek by the turn. if you raised th river you may have got a fold, you may have seen you got beat or you may have got reraised which shows you were most likely beat.

Youre missing a bit of info for us to better determine how this hand should be played out.

Was your opponent playing loose and showing down lots of weaker hands?
Did you have any kind of read on him at all?

But JJ is tough to play IMO. Most of the time you could just slow play it and hope to catch a J on the flop to make a set and watch the fireworks ensue. Also JJ should be an easy laydown if an A, K, or Q pop up on the flop and your opponent bets out or calls a raise from you.......

Quick answer...fold to the bet. Its a small bet compared to the pot and is asking for a sucker call. You might have been better off cheking folding when the queen came out. Let me ask you this. What hands could your enemy have that you can beat? (not many)

Any king you lose, any Ace you lose, any queen you lose, two clubs you lose. Those are all cards that would call a bet pre-flop. Maybe even J 9? Would you enemy call .35 with a 10, 9? Would he call .35 with a bad pocket pair and call through with that board? So what could he have that you can beat?

One card to a flush? no, because people don't call to a 4 card flush with <9. They also don't make small bets if they miss.

Small pocket pair? Possibly, but that board would scare the crap out of them, especially with a pre-flop raise betting on the following 2 streets. You probly would have got a raise on the flop if they were holding a smaller pair.

You were beat, and even if you weren't this hand, putting any more money into a pot like this is not a good move. Its not so bad to fold a winner evey now and then when the board comes like this.

Thank you all guys!
I actually did fold, but I wasn't sure I have made the right decision as I thought that if he had an Ace, he would've re-rasied me, same goes for the Q... Which leaves me with 2 pairs - But again, as you all said, there were too many hands that could beat me, $1.30 was really high for this tighted table, so I fold.

You played this wrong on the turn. You raised and he called preflop.

Then the ace came on the flop. you bet. He called. Why? If he's even a half decent player he isn't calling that flop when you show preflop strength with a hand like KQ or QJ, unless one of them is a club. So you can narrow down his hand to something like


A/x or

KQ-QT with one club

a made flush

QQ or KK (though these might be unlikely since he didn't reraise you preflop)

Now, you get the turn card: Qs

You bet again.... This IMO is your biggest mistake. He's already shown strength in the hand, and his possible hand holdings are more likely to beat you here. The Queen only adds to hands that have you beat.

KQ, QJ, QT, flush draws just improved. They're now beating you. QQ improved to trips, you're drawing nearly dead. The only thing you can hope to beat here is a up and up flush draw that is lower than a Jack... which leaves the 9 of clubs? Why bet the turn here? When you don't have a big hand (you don't have one here) you keep the pots small. Small hand/Small pot. Big hand/Big pot. Quit throwing money into the pot and hoping you're gonna win. Check the turn and fold to a bet. Save yourself 80 cents.

As it stands, folding on the river was the ONLY logical play. I'm sorry it cost you .80$ to realize that.

J-J?

I don't know if you've heard yet, I havn't read all yer replys, but-----there are three ways to play pocket Jacks---an' ALL of 'em are wrong!

The "value bet" on the river was the best tell he could have given you. Nice read.

Cowboy8112 said:

The "value bet" on the river was the best tell he could have given you. Nice read.

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Really? Calling the bets on the flop and turn didn't tell you he had Jacks beat?

Styrofoam said:

Really? Calling the bets on the flop and turn didn't tell you he had Jacks beat?

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You'd be surprised the stuff people chase down.....

appstatepkr77 said:

JJ is a raising hand pre-flop, but once the flop hits you have to play it like every other low pocket pair. I like the bet on the flop just to see where you where but you needed to check the turn.

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I couldnt agree with you more. If an A,K or Q land on the flop you have to proceed with caution...............

Well, JJ is a good hand for starters, but not the best. If you flat call in preflop it would be a bad play cause i mean someone with Ace 2 coudl easily call and beat you. The raise was good, and at this point no one can really be sure of what you have, cause its also likely that someone in your position would by trying to steal the blinds... i mean comeon, everyone folds and your there before Button, it would cross my mind. The raise would be like 4 or 5 times the BB. Anyways the flop what came was A T 8, all suited to Clubs!! and you had a club! Even though you dont have highest pair, its a must raise! You have only one caller, and he could easily have something like K Q, or suited connectors. On the other hand he could have an A T, or something similar to that like A 9. You have to bet for 2 main reasons. First, a tester bet... you want to feel whats happening here, and a small bet wont do it!, it has to be like more than half the pot... If he folds, he didnt get it, if he calls, he either has you, or he is trying to catch a straight of flush... or he is just a plain noob lol. Now, the second reason is because you could have him beat! If he folds, u know you had him beat, and if he calls, well you might still have him beat cause he could very easily be trying to catch a flush or a straight. Now, you have a flush going, but its very possibly he has a flush bigger than yours cause he called your raise preflop, meaning he could have high cards.
My beat on the flop would be like 75 percent of the pot. Now... lets say he called and the queen came, its time to be afraid!! If he had 2 high cards, he definitly had you beat! i mean coem on, Ace Ten Eight and Queen.... King Jack gives a straight, and an ace, or a Queen gives him a higher pair than you! Now your hoping he is going for the flush or staright... I would check here, hoping he checks too. If he raises, you could call since you have an inside straight going as well as trio or flush (be careful if trio comes cause straigh is very likely too, a nine or a king gives him one, so this one im not too happy to see) Now if there is a big big raise, you have to fold, but lets say its a small one, a callable one. The Ace comes.... this isnt the worst thing for you, cause it makes it less likely he had the ace, and if he for sommee reason had something like T 8, which is very unlikely, you have him beat. You have to check here cause too much is there to beat you. If he raises hug again, i would fold... but now its up to you to decide, i mean you have been playing with this guy for a while so you shouldk now if he is a bluffer, if he changes his play, and all these little things. If i didnt know the guy though and he raised me big, i would definitly fold. GL at the tables.

10crow10 said:

no i wouldnt call it and i also wouldnt have bet the turn, but thats just me

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no, its not just you. I've been saying that from the start ha!

fold it.
too many hands u cant beat.
doubt he was bluffing and if he was its ok cuz most times that wont be the case and u save money

I hate when they play position on my big PP...I would have played that way till the turn..I would check the turn and fold if he bets

yea you pretty muched asked him to bet or make a move on the pot betting the whole time and then checking the river..but idk id prolyl check it after the flop see if he is gonna play on the ace or not..

i also didnt know well how to play jj.... if i raise 4 bb and only one player call my bet i can perfectly imagine that he could have something good like aq, ak, at or maybe a top pair qq,kk,aa.... if there is A on the flop i would have check and see if he bets or check.... and if he make a big raise i will think he have the A.... however being the first to play its good to make a little bet to take same information about your opponent combination
you just bet 0.80 and he calls.... then you bet again and he calls.... and in the river you check so its obvious that your opponent have the nuts with 3 of a kind aces.... if i were you i wouldnt have bet on the turn...

No call, u likely don't have the best hand. Probably would have checked the turn.