PLO: what do I do when the answer to both these questions is no?

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ScottishMatt

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Do I get called by worse hands? No.

Do I get better hands to fold? No.

So many times I find myself in a situation where betting accomplishes neither of these things. In many of these situations I think I have the best hand and if I check I allow villain(s) to realize equity and draw out on me or just bet and take it away (either as a float or a probe). If I bet I can get called by worse sometimes but my hand is so weak and I have few enough improvement cards that I have to check most turns and allow everything to get there. I can't bet many turns because so many hands picked up equity/hit second pair that most hands which call the flop aren't folding now.

What do I do?
 
bitowl

bitowl

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Conventional wisdom in PLO is that betting for protection is usually the correct move. Get out of the NL mindset that every bet is either for value or a bluff. Betting to fold out hands that would later bluff you is actually perfectly valid. Mathematically just think of the bet as a bluff that is folding out his bluffing equity.

If villain never bluffs then all you have to consider is your equity vs his range & its probably mathematically correct to just check back and lose a lot (assuming your bet is beaten 50+% when called by the river).

check most turns and allow everything to get there

You should get out of this mindset imo. Villian doesn't always flop the flush+wrap. Plus you can represent whatever comes in too if you stay aggressive. You can probably fold out 2 pairs and weird pair+draws that call when they shouldn't once the flush or straight completion cards come in.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Conventional wisdom in PLO is that betting for protection is usually the correct move. Get out of the NL mindset that every bet is either for value or a bluff. Betting to fold out hands that would later bluff you is actually perfectly valid. Mathematically just think of the bet as a bluff that is folding out his bluffing equity.

If villain never bluffs then all you have to consider is your equity vs his range & its probably mathematically correct to just check back and lose a lot (assuming your bet is beaten 50+% when called by the river).



You should get out of this mindset imo. Villian doesn't always flop the flush+wrap. Plus you can represent whatever comes in too if you stay aggressive. You can probably fold out 2 pairs and weird pair+draws that call when they shouldn't once the flush or straight completion cards come in.

This is where my problem lies. I get afraid to bet flops because I'm unsure of when it is correct to rep the draws that came in on the turn. In holdem I'm comfortable enough with my ranges and my opponents ranges that I can deduce when it is likely to be profitable bluffing on x turns. In PLO I'm lost.

Another question. If I Cbet a monotone non-straight flop and get raised what is the standard defacto range that is strong enough to simply GII with 100BB deep? Top set/Wraps?
 
bitowl

bitowl

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Sounds like you just need to play more hands to get a feel for frequencies and ranges. In PLO they always have it. If I have top set in a 3bet pot on a montone board and get raised, all I'm thinking is whether I have the odds to try to fill up. I'd consider wraps dead. It's not like NL where they have a single card flush draw plus a pair so they raise as a semi bluff. They're pretty much polarized with that raise since it doesn't make any sense to raise bottom set on a montone board, there is no turn scare card.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Yeah I'm slowly becoming more comfortable, it's such a different game but I feel it's helped my HE game already. Here is a hand where I miscounted my outs OTF and decided to call. Should this be a stackoff esp given the backdoor flush, or should I be calling flop and then GII on turns where I get there or develop the BDFD?


PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $4.80 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
BTN: $2.04 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (SB): $2.18
BB: $9.57 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K:heart: T:heart: A:heart: Q:club:

fold, BTN calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, BB calls $0.06, BTN calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.24, 3 players) Q:diamond: J:spade: 2:heart:
Hero bets $0.14, BB raises to $0.38, fold, Hero calls $0.24

Turn: ($1.00, 2 players) 4:club:
Hero checks, BB bets $0.97, fold,
 
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