Is my playing style dirty?

P

PresidentWu

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Total posts
40
Chips
0
Join .05-.10 and buy in for the minimum $2. Play really tight and try to sneak into some hands at the low end big blind @ .10 then I eventually double up and then leave.

I find that $2 gives me enough money to see enough flops to eventually hit. I don't need to bluff like crazy or anything and keeps me from just chasing anything.

I started playing that from about $4 left I was on a $10 deposit... Just wanted to play on my cell phone.

Anyways I built that up to $33 in 2 days and maybe 4 or 5 hours played. It seems to work and I find that sometimes I WILL stay but sometimes you will take a bad beat and lose. So why not just take your winnings then come back?

The reason why I play lower end is because if I buy in for $8 and hit a bad beat like yesterday (88) flop 842 no flush draw. I bet guy raises and I raise. We are all in. He flips KK and hits a king on the turn. It happens but if I had $8 at the table then it would take awhile to get that $8 back. At $2 again most pots are usually 0.40 or something. So its easy to gain it back.

Am I playing CHEAP?


Also just played 2 tables 100 hands starting at $2 each. I stayed at the table till 100 and finished first table up $2 and second table up $3 I averaged seeing the flop 25% of the time.

All in all I feel like it's cheap but is it super cheap way to play?:dontknow:
 
rifflemao

rifflemao

Pugs Not Drugs
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Total posts
4,562
Awards
1
Chips
98
Starting shortstacked seems like a safe way to build a small roll, assuming you hit most of the time.

I call what you're doing "hit and run", and I've done it on Bovada before to help send my cash graph north after a downswing. But I think it is a little like market-timing or day-trading in the stock market, and you'll probably want your game to evolve from that.
 
BigCountryAA

BigCountryAA

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Total posts
762
Chips
0
If it works I say go for it. Making money is the point of the game after all.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
you are just running good, definitely a less profitable strategy than buying in full or dropping stakes
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,706
Awards
2
Chips
122
Do you care?

rly....
 
P

PresidentWu

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Total posts
40
Chips
0
I figure the value is much much better at the lower end. Sure I might not be able to take $6 from a guy. But at the same time im not going to lose alot on a bad beat. It seems safe

Again getting into low value flops works well as long as im being safe.

Up to $38 mmmm I like this style. I know $38 isn't much but I feel like I can actually enjoy this style and run with it for awhile. Might wait to break 100 and then go up. But at .10 - .20 minimum is $10 at the table. So ill see :)

As for if I care? well not really because it works however im just talking to talk things out here :)
 
T

twohaha

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Total posts
114
Chips
0
No such thing as a dirty strategy (unless if it involves cheating). However, your edge by doing this is much smaller than if you bought in the full amount and played post-flop poker. This is a good way to get comfortable with the new stakes though.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
Duggs is right. You're just on a run-good. Keep in mind, the better you are at the game, the more of an edge you have when playing deeper stacks. However, if you are just learning or don't have much experience, buying in short is a good idea.
 
C

cotta777

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Total posts
868
Chips
0
If there are enough tables it might work if you know what to look for, the key concept is at any one time you can control the style of players you are playing against and the position changes.

its more profitable to stop in for 20 minutes and move if its tough, not working or bad cards.

I've built bankrolls this way in the past
 
P

PresidentWu

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Total posts
40
Chips
0
Well again no matter how much control you have no matter how good you are sometimes you gonna take a big hit. Sure you can get it back. But if you have $10 at the table and lose a $5 pot. Now you need to make back $5. If I lose I just need to make back $2 AND again going into a flop theres already .30-.40 in the pot. Makes it much easier for me to get it back. ESPECIALLY if im playing tight.

To me it seems like I have much better odds at the lower end. But to each their own I guess. Once im at $43 I will do a $2 buy in and see if I can get it to $20. I do find that this style is working 75-25. I do lose the $2 but seems like the next time I buy in I end up winning it back and then some. Then I exit the table and start again at $2.

Anyways no point to get excited about this yet as im just starting it out.


************ One interesting point. When I was playing more then one table and saw the same person at the other table. I would see when they were in a BIG POT and then bully them on the other table. You know their focus is on the big pot and they need to think. So sometimes they just fold because their busy :)
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
don't they call this "rat-holing" ?

edit: I'm not a cash player, this is an innocent question! :)
 
W

Weissr

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 26, 2012
Total posts
833
Chips
0
Short stacking is a technique that many players implement profitably. It takes a lot of 'play' out of the game because the chips usually go in on the earlier streets which reduces the amount of post flop play (and as a result, the edge that better players have).
 
P

PokerStarsS

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Total posts
6
Chips
0
shortstacking is just like aids

but in reality you should be developing your play so you wouldn't need to shortstack because it might seem safe but you are losing a lot of value with big hands when you hit.
 
R3DRANG3R

R3DRANG3R

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Total posts
278
Chips
0
lol i do that when im building my br or when im under 20bi
 
Zorba

Zorba

27
Platinum Level
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Total posts
41,797
Awards
15
AQ
Chips
169
It sounds like all you want to do is win in the short term, in the long run you will lose playing like that and your game wont get better.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
You lose less but you win less as well. When you hit that monster your losing a TON of value.

Its better to play full stacked and learn how to play good post flop instead of hitting any piece of the flop and praying for the best.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
35
Short-stack + ratholing = losing poker.

Do you not have any post-flop skills to play? Or is it that you're playing with scared money and can't afford to lose the buy-in of 100bb which accounts for big portion of your bankroll? I rather play 2NL with $2 rather than short-stacking at 10NL with $2. Way less variance and much better way to maximize your profit. If someone who has over 50bb raises to 5bb while you're holding pocket 2s from the position and you know for sure he has pocket Aces, are you just gonna fold? If you're short-stacked playing with 20bb, you better fold since you're only getting 4:1 implied odds to flop a set whereas if you had 100bb, you can afford to call and try to take his entire stack when you flop it. Live home games, I even think 40bb is sometimes not enough.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
35
It sounds like all you want to do is win in the short term, in the long run you will lose playing like that and your game wont get better.
^^^^^ Very true

I've done both in the past. Being a sng player while also living in California where lot of casinos have 20bb buy-ins, I used to short-stack and see how horrible it is. With help from cc, I see lot of cc regulars play full stack and maximize their winnings through good post-flop skills.

Short-stacking = playing your hands, not the game. Short-stacking = scared money.

If a big stack raises to 5bb from utg and you're on a button with pocket 2s, you can afford to call if you're full stack since you can take rest of his chips if you flop it, assuming he overplays his high pocket pair and have high post-flop aggression, whereas if you're short-stacked, you can't afford to call because you are only getting 4.3:1 implied odds to flop a set.

Being short-stacked, you can rarely win the pot through non-showdown(meaning you can't or rarely bluff at all) and your only way to win is through showdown.
 
P

PresidentWu

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Total posts
40
Chips
0
Going from $3 to $75 doesn't seem like a losing play.
It's not like im pushing all-in to win my hands. I can see the flop normally for .10 or on a .40 raise sometimes. Plus when people see your low stack they dont mind calling your all in even if you have them dominated.
Sometimes I will stick around and build it from $2 to $10. But I can see enough hands with the $2 to eventually build that up. Also the $2 is insurence against a bad beat. It would suck to have $10 go against someone who also has $10 and end up in an all in situation only to get sucked out on and lose all that. $2 looks weak but works very well.
Ill stick to my style for now again it seems to be working. I never in my life did well at Ring games. Yet here I seem to be on a roll
 
jordanbillie

jordanbillie

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Total posts
3,742
Awards
3
Chips
161
Enjoy your short term success as you will eventually go bust. You sound like an inexperienced "day trader" who "figure out a system" but in reality it's just a super simple hit and run strategy that works a little at a time before it fails miserably.
 
Blobweird123

Blobweird123

CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Total posts
2,468
Chips
0
Going from $3 to $75 doesn't seem like a losing play.
It's not like im pushing all-in to win my hands. I can see the flop normally for .10 or on a .40 raise sometimes. Plus when people see your low stack they dont mind calling your all in even if you have them dominated.
Sometimes I will stick around and build it from $2 to $10. But I can see enough hands with the $2 to eventually build that up. Also the $2 is insurence against a bad beat. It would suck to have $10 go against someone who also has $10 and end up in an all in situation only to get sucked out on and lose all that. $2 looks weak but works very well.
Ill stick to my style for now again it seems to be working. I never in my life did well at Ring games. Yet here I seem to be on a roll

Yup which will prolly end soon and yet if you were full stacking during this "roll" you're on, you could have had a much larger bankroll already. See the fault in your logic now?
 
A

awmm1983

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Total posts
32
Chips
0
How bad will you feel when the deep stack 3 bets your Aces with Kings and won't back down to your 4 bet , flips and shoves. Go in Deep . Pick up pots pre flop and wait for the alignment of the planets. :) GL.
 
P

PresidentWu

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Total posts
40
Chips
0
Well I do double up or leave with 50% increase 5 out of 6 times. A few times I stay and keep playing.

Today I went from $2 to $11 in 4 hands.

J 10 - 2 Pair Double up
QQ vs 1010 against the guy that just doubled me up
.50 cent pre flop called Flop K 10 10 (2 people in and no bets to the river.) Thought id use my new winnings to try and bluffed the pot and took another few dollars.
Next hand had an ugly flop but no bets again and I got runner runner for 2 pair and a few more dollars. It was kind of nice :)

For those that say ill lose my money playing this way. It's impossible as I can still see alot of value flops and im not shoving all in ever. Until after the flop or if I have a monster hand.

The BIGGEST asset about playing this way is IF I get into a VALUE flop and am chasing a flush I don't have to waste a ton of money to try to hit the flop. I can be all in for little and if I miss oh well it didn't cost me $6 to chase.

Sure if I had more money and DID chase and DID win then I would get alot more. But again I look at the damage taken. I would rather lose a little to win some. Then lose alot to possible win more. It keeps me from getting involved with hands that can do alot of damage to your BR in 1 go.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Total posts
1,319
Awards
1
Chips
35
Well I do double up or leave with 50% increase 5 out of 6 times. A few times I stay and keep playing.

Today I went from $2 to $11 in 4 hands.

J 10 - 2 Pair Double up
QQ vs 1010 against the guy that just doubled me up
.50 cent pre flop called Flop K 10 10 (2 people in and no bets to the river.) Thought id use my new winnings to try and bluffed the pot and took another few dollars.
Next hand had an ugly flop but no bets again and I got runner runner for 2 pair and a few more dollars. It was kind of nice :)

For those that say ill lose my money playing this way. It's impossible as I can still see alot of value flops and im not shoving all in ever. Until after the flop or if I have a monster hand.

The BIGGEST asset about playing this way is IF I get into a VALUE flop and am chasing a flush I don't have to waste a ton of money to try to hit the flop. I can be all in for little and if I miss oh well it didn't cost me $6 to chase.

Sure if I had more money and DID chase and DID win then I would get alot more. But again I look at the damage taken. I would rather lose a little to win some. Then lose alot to possible win more. It keeps me from getting involved with hands that can do alot of damage to your BR in 1 go.

As people mentioned here, your winnings are short-term winnings. And you're not even maximizing your winnings. If you're gonna short-stack in cash games, you're better off playing sit-n-gos or lower the cash game stake. But if you don't like to take my and others advices, then feel free to be my guest and do what you're currently doing. Although I doubt you will develop your bankroll and your skills, if you do and prove me wrong, more power to you and I hope you for your success. Only reason I doubt is because there were millions of short-stackers who play like you and never had any success and only gone broke.


Sure if I had more money and DID chase and DID win then I would get alot more. But again I look at the damage taken. I would rather lose a little to win some. Then lose alot to possible win more. It keeps me from getting involved with hands that can do alot of damage to your BR in 1 go.

You're better off doing stocks and day trades. You're saying you don't have guts to put your money behind on flush draws just because you're under 50% to win the hand. If you're getting right odds to call, you call. You may even semi-bluff(which is what I do lots of times) and if you hit it, which you will roughly 1 out of 3 times, you will get paid way more than if you were to fold and lose bets everytime you just have a draw since people will have hard time putting you on a made flush. I've even taken down lots of pots just on a draw just by playing aggressively to represent a strong range of hands and even if i couldn't get people to fold on certain streets, if I made my hand in future streets, I still got paid off a lot since people have hard time putting me on a flush. If you play like a ultra-nit who don't have guts to play your draws aggressively and selectively, while also can't take advantage of implied odds, you'll never come out a winner. If you're playing scared, you're better off dropping down in stakes and play comfortably.
 
Last edited:
Blobweird123

Blobweird123

CC's very own Dead Head
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Total posts
2,468
Chips
0
What was the purpose of this thread? Because ppl tried to offer advice but you have already convinced yourself so yeah why make the thread at all?
 
Top