Raise as it's a standard steal/value raise. In other words it'll make money long-term.
Stack sizes don't matter too much until they get around the 20bb mark as it's the perfect restealing size as well as the perfect size to get committed postflop with any piece of the flop. So if I'm seeing <20bb stacks in the blinds in the same spot I'm often open folding.
So if I'm seeing <20bb stacks in the blinds in the same spot I'm often open folding.
Wow, really? I'm more inclined to play this hand in position with a bit deeper stacks. If you flop a set vs a big ace or over pair, you may get paid off more. It depends on the player, but I can't see myself open folding late position in an unopened pot with 55 deep.
I'm not really worried about facing a larger pair here. I'm more concerned that the raise from the button is so often seen as straight steal that I will get reraised and no longer be getting the odds I need to go after my set. That's why Chuck said he's more likely to fold to the short stack, but I don't think the stacks need to be as short as Chuck said before the reraise becomes a concern.
If we raise to 3.5bb and the blinds fold, that's great.
If we raise to 3.5 and get called that's also great (we're getting great implied odds for when we hit).
If we raise to 3.5bb and get reraised to 10bb we're no longer getting the implied odds we need even from the big stack in my example (put in 10bb to win 85).
You're getting my post mixed up - I'm less likely to raise if the stacks are shorter (specifically 20bb or less). I do agree I'm more likely to raise the deeper the effective stacks are.
Good points and it's an interesting concept. To really look in-depth at this we need to look at our stealing %, our opponents' defending %s, and their 3-bet %s preflop (ughghhhhhh PT3 couldn't come sooner) to determine how likely we are to be 3-bet, called, or folded. Just because a 3-bet from a stack means we're not getting implied odds doesn't mean we shouldn't be raising in this spot since their not always 3-betting, obviously.
As it is with nothing but the reads you gave us it should be a standard raise imo.
I really have no idea what the most correct play is here (or if there is one), but it's just a situation that I seem to have run into several times in the last few days.
Can we think about min raising in spots where a 3bet is more likely (we've been stealing or our opponents have been aggressively defending their blind(s)) ? This allows us to limit the amount of the 3bet, unless our opponent overbets the pot, and let's us hit the implied odds we're looking for.
Alternately, if we're making our standard raise can we call the 3bet without the right odds because our position and taking the initiative allows us to take pots away postflop even without hitting our set?
But this is why the raise with a small pocket pair is so good. It gives the impression that you have overcards, so when the set hits and you bet it, it looks like a C-bet.well myself i enjoy limping with pp in late position. cause they wont be expecting a set when a low card come out cause u showed no str. but sometimes if u dotn raise specially late in tourny itll hurt u long run