playing optimally against short stacks (question)

yeah, getting sick of them tbh..

mostly stacking off ranges etc.. atm it's AA-JJ, AK - AQ.

its not that rigid, widening/tightening due to position, whether they are a fish/reg etc.

my main problem is in a 3 bet scenario.

theory indicates that if you're opponent is 3 betting a merged range then 4 bet.. and if they're 3 betting a polarized range you should call.

but neither of these is optimal against a 50bb stack or below (I don't know the exact math) because if we 4 bet light we're priced in to calling with whatever hand we decide to go with so we have to stack off super wide or fold, which both will lose us money..

that sucks.

and if we call we have about a 20ishbb pot (assuming everyone else folds) with 40bb effective stacks where we're going to miss 2/3 of the time and check fold.. or check jam and get it in with any decent equity we have.

and that sucks as well..

so what should we do to combat this?

imo (might be adjusting badly) it makes sense to 4 bet jam light with A/Kx suited since it has equity against his calling range, and then my wider value range as well obv.

well they were my thoughts/problems for this morning.. if there's a standard way to deal with short stackers that I missed then don't hesitate to tell me, thanks.

opinions/theories?

idk if it's OK to post active links to another forum? hope so, here is an old post on another forum with gr8 advice on how to combat short stacks:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/pooh-bah-crushing-short-stacks-17011/

Depends on the type of shorty really. If they're the 3bet-light-fold-to-shove type, obviously 4bet shoving wide is the way to go (I never make a smaller than shove 4bet against a shorty). If they're the stupidly nitty shorty just fold and move on. If they 3bet wide and call it off just shove over with your decent equity hands.

I struggle with SS too to some degree. They are nothing but a pain..

I'm unsure as to why poker rooms do not have SS tables and basically have them all play together or at the very least, make sure they buy-in for a minimum of 100blinds, if they don't want auto rebuy then that is fine, but to have someone who isn't put to a decision for all their chips kind of makes it a joke - I know pokerstars introduced "cap" games and the only thing they failed on doing is actually now changing the real poker games to 100 blinds minimum buy-in. They should be put all together in one table and let themselves fight it over for 20-30blind stacks and not interfere with 100+blinds stacks play, sucks!


The most annoying thing about it all is that, you get people at 5nl on stars buying in for a minimum of $2.00 lol......I have to say because it winds me up so much, "Why don't you just play at 2nl if you can't afford to play at 5nl?" It gets to me so much, makes ZERO sense..when they can actually then play for a proper stack at 2nl.

I put it down to them being bad players in general who hate being put in spots. It's poker sites problems for allowing it though.



Sorry, derail - rant over! I'm ranting a lot today!

To your question though, I personally just am happy getting in most pairs and A,J's+ with them. If they are the typical bad nits who just ship A,Q+ and any pairs, then I might tighten up my range a little. If they are loose sort of fishy players, I don't mind just shipping quite a few with them.

thanks for the link cheaptrix, its the great wall of china of articles but I'll finish it off later tonight.

and I haven't met any light 3 betters fold to shove shorties here.. its more 3 bet light call it off super tight.

but there's a way to deal with them in the link so I should be good from now on.

ram I get you, but people like to take shots with their money and try run it up if their playing for absolute fun.. and playing short at a bigger table is better for them than playing full stacked at a smaller one.

is my thinking wrong though? I know in tournament strategy 40bbs effective etc this works so I figured mathematically it should for cash.

thanks for the help guys.

Campbell92 said:

thanks for the link cheaptrix, its the great wall of china of articles but I'll finish it off later tonight.

and I haven't met any light 3 betters fold to shove shorties here.. its more 3 bet light call it off super tight.

but there's a way to deal with them in the link so I should be good from now on.

ram I get you, but people like to take shots with their money and try run it up if their playing for absolute fun.. and playing short at a bigger table is better for them than playing full stacked at a smaller one.

is my thinking wrong though? I know in tournament strategy 40bbs effective etc this works so I figured mathematically it should for cash.

thanks for the help guys.

Click to expand...

Awesome. 4bet wide with hands that have blockers/equity when called (suited Aces/Kings). Depending on the difference between their 3bet range and their calling a shove range you might be able to literally do it with ATCs and show a profit (doesn't mean you should because having a tighter range will be more profitable of course). Also think about flatting their 3bets with premiums so you don't lose value when they fold because they'll generally bet the flop at least.

You'll be playing a very exploitable game but they may not even notice.

hmm, something doesn't make sense in your shorty description


I also like shoving pocket pairs over the ones who 3bet fold a lot to 4bets (pretty much all of them), even if they call we have like 30% equity or so against their range and shit tons of fold equity that we dont even need 30% equity if theyre 3bettling like 10% and only continuing with 3% of that.