Playing Live Without Stats? How do you do it?

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rawone

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I am constantly amazed by the number of people who are entirely caught up with playing online using the various stats programs and such. I was really wondering how the heck you guys manage to play live at all.

Anyone want to take a stab at how you would collect such stats playing live?
 
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rw11687

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I wonder the same thing sometimes - not about live but about poker in general. I think stats can be very useful, but I don't typically use them. Maybe I am just too cheap to buy the software :). I think it has value, but I think there are downsides as well. Although, I suppose you could make the same argument for the opposite...

Now I'm just yammering :)
 
BvBrMTW

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Online players (like myself) play 4-20 tables at the same time, there is NO chance you can keep notes and ranges yourself at all those tables against all 6/9 opponnents at the same time.
So that's why we use HUD to keep track of it.

Now in a live game, you're at a table with 5-9 other players, that's not an awful lot. Now there are some real life help "programs" (including a notepad, maybe the notepad on a mobile device, and I know there are Apps that can keep track of VPIP/PFR/3bet and such, you just have to put them in yourself, but you have way more time for that live.)

Just look around the next time you're in casino, and look how many young guys you'll see with their mobile device, their probably not texting all the time.

Anyway, you play less hands with less opponnents so you have way more time to observe them,
And obviously you won't know their exact flop afq or their turn c-bet%, but even online I don't use those all the time, only in some big decisions.
 
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rawone

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BvBrMTW, I agree with you, but I am just trying to figure it out here...

There are plenty of people here (and other poker sites) pushing things like Leakbusters as such. Some people seem to use them correctly (as a way to learn from mistakes and improve your game) but many others seem to be promoting these HUD display things as a crutch for otherwise poor players to "know" them opponents.

If you are using the tools to think for you, when do you learn to think for yourself?
 
duggs

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huds/trackers/stats analysis wont help you improve unless you understand the game. its not a crutch.
 
OzExorcist

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When I got to the casino I just imagine a glowing sign above everyone's heads that reads "40/10/1 - drooler" until they demonstrate otherwise :p
 
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MSINIWRAD

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When I got to the casino I just imagine a glowing sign above everyone's heads that reads "40/10/1 - drooler" until they demonstrate otherwise :p
ha sounds about right but I think you're giving them too much credit :)
 
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rawone

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When I got to the casino I just imagine a glowing sign above everyone's heads that reads "40/10/1 - drooler" until they demonstrate otherwise :p

Oh good, now I have an image with everyone with a glow over their heads and a baby drool bib on... I may never be able to play without laughing again1
 
steveiam

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BvBrMTW, I agree with you, but I am just trying to figure it out here...

There are plenty of people here (and other poker sites) pushing things like Leakbusters as such. Some people seem to use them correctly (as a way to learn from mistakes and improve your game) but many others seem to be promoting these HUD display things as a crutch for otherwise poor players to "know" them opponents.


If you are using the tools to think for you, when do you learn to think for yourself?
Playing live is all about your feel for the game and reads on your opponents.Stats wont help you but your understanding of outs and pot odds will.
 
duggs

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Playing live is all about your feel for the game and reads on your opponents.Stats wont help you but your understanding of outs and pot odds will.

lol what exactly do you people think stats do?
 
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ScottishMatt

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I think some people must feel that HUDs just play the game for you. Well they don't. You don't even need them online if you are playing 1-2 tables, they are mainly for people playing a lot more than that. Think 8-24 tables. Gathering info about 6-12 people isn't difficult, but think about 60-100 people. So HUDs don't do anything that you can't do yourself, they simply make information more accessible and processes quicker. Think about how you apply a calculator to mathematics, it's not that you can't do it yourself with just pen and paper, but that using the calculator simplifies the process.
 
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rw11687

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I think some people must feel that HUDs just play the game for you. Well they don't. You don't even need them online if you are playing 1-2 tables, they are mainly for people playing a lot more than that. Think 8-24 tables. Gathering info about 6-12 people isn't difficult, but think about 60-100 people. So HUDs don't do anything that you can't do yourself, they simply make information more accessible and processes quicker. Think about how you apply a calculator to mathematics, it's not that you can't do it yourself with just pen and paper, but that using the calculator simplifies the process.

Thats prob why I don't see value in them (for myself only), I hardly play more than 2 tables at a time. To each their own.
 
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sir_lagalot

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i constantly jot down betting patterns on my cellphones notepad. blah-blah raised blah with blah , blah called blah with blah. blah likes to bet his draws - blah folds to blah-sized bet lol
 
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Live poker is all about knowing your opponents through observation and past experience. You learn to pay attention to subtle ques and detect real tension and confidence. Most importantly you pay attention to betting patterns and playing habits for each player you face.
 
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GWU73

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Adding to comment:

Taking notes, using some software etc.. would disengage you from the bigger game and be less useful than regular observation. If you sit 4 hours with the same players you might see 120 hands (maybe) that is NOT enough to make substantial use of the notes anyway. Not to mention tipping everyone off that you are tracking their play (good way to lose the metagame and your stack) and possibly getting harassed by players, dealers and the floor manager.
 
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rawone

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Funny but true story... the other night I am playing (at a nameless casino in Macau) and after a particularly tough hand (with a bad fold of KK by one player) all three of the players involved have their tablets out with the odds calculators re-runnning the hand and arguing about it... AT THE TABLE.

In Vegas, that would get you ejected from the building. In Macau, they provide wi-fi so you can get better access!
 
steveiam

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Live poker is all about knowing your opponents through observation and past experience. You learn to pay attention to subtle ques and detect real tension and confidence. Most importantly you pay attention to betting patterns and playing habits for each player you face.
This +1
 
lpmduarte

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hi rawone, on the past i used tournament indicator and really helped me a lot and did me think more about the game, about EV, and where for example KJ is a good hand to call and helped me a lot in other points, but now i am not using it anymore or rarely, and why, you can find a lot of programs that can really help you if you are committed to understand the logic between the hand you are playing and the strategy you can adopt in a specific situation. For me tools and programs just means something if you can learn from that and in the future can play with or without that. In some moments, this tools can really open your mind about this game, but yes, i listened a lot of players telling me that they did a call because magic holdem tells that was the correct action, they are not thinking about why makes sense to call, if you know what i mean. Playing live, is so different compared to playing online because in live tournaments for example or cash you have so much more information about the players, you can see theirs reactions, their behaviors in a situation and a lot of other information that you need to be very focused to catch and to used in your favor. But do not think so much about that :) is a concern that they need to have or not.
 
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