Playing implied odds

Something that Welly posted the other day re: the progression of a poker player got me thinking (rare occurrance). One of the lines was something like "Stop playing Tight Aggressive and start playing Implied odds".

I also notice, watching High Stakes Poker on YouTube, that the pros often call an opening raise with all kinds of what a tight player would consider junk in the hole. Presumbably calling for the implied odds if they hit.

On the other hand, watching the highest stakes games ($25-50 NL) on pokerstars, they only play 15% of their hands on average, suggesting most players at the highest level online play pretty damn tight.

So is this a natural progression or it is tight still optimal for online play?

TV poker is misleading, because they usually edit out the majority of hands where people fold and there`s no action, and include dramatic stuff where somebody runs a bluff or makes an unusual call to mix it up. Gives the false impression that the game is crazy.

It's an interesting question. I think that when you start out playing, a tight-aggressive style is solid and will put you on the right track for developing a good decision making process. Once you get a bit more comfortable with the game you start to add little bits and maybe loosen up a bit.

I think there is a bit to consider rather than giving a generic answer. How is the game playing? Are there certain weak players you just want to be in a pot with? How good is your gear changing ability? The more I think about it I think gear changing is the key skill rather than loosening up generally.

In an interview I read with Joe Hachem he said that in cash games he is more LAGgy than usual. Watching Sam Farha in HSP is an education but I'd say the guys got a lot of gamble in him and it looks great when he hits every flop or catches the dream card.

I think it all depends what kind of opponents you're playing against, and how often you see them etc.

These high-stakes players you see (ie Farha) making calls with 82 suited are 1) not doing it as often as TV would have you believe and 2) play against these same players very often, and have to switch their game up to keep their opponents guessing. Of course 82s is a little extreme, but open raising utg with 67s is perfectly fine if you're seen as a conservative player like Greenstein or Harrington, and want to mix your play up. They win huge pots when they actually hit their flops.

I think the level that we all play at (micros to low/medium stakes), a TAG game is best. People play too loose, and you have to punish them with strong starting hands.

I think there's also a huge difference between tournaments and ring games, especially early on in a tourney with low buy-ins (not to mention the freerolls) -- most people in those events seem to have no concept whatsoever of pot odds, implied odds, or odds in general and I see people go all in pre-flop all the time with things like J-7o, small pocket pairs, or A-anything.

I think the only way to go in these early stages of tourneys like that is to be super-selective with your hands, and then loosen up as the field narrows down to the more skilled players.

Good point about TV only showing the action hands. I think on HSP they have antes as well, which promote action?

As an aside I think it would be good if some online poker rooms offered tables with antes as well as blinds.

Bombjack,

In the PokerStar MTT's you get to the stage where antes are put in. Or did I miss the point. Did you mean at the beginning (I think you did). If so, please ignore

Cheers

There are several online poker sites I can think of which have antes in the later stages of an MTT. It certainly does liven up the play too, because it means that every pot is juicy enough to be tempting and you`re aware of the fact that your stack is being nibbled away unless you win something regularly.

Yep, pretty much every big MTT plays with antes in the later stages. I was thinking more about cash games with antes. NL Hold'em used to be played with antes + 1 blind, 20 or 30 years ago, but people thought it was too much hassle anteing up every hand, so they changed it to two blinds. Online it's no hassle to ante. I think it could make for a more exciting cash game, especially in those full 10-seater ring games that are full of rocks.

Bombjack said:

Good point about TV only showing the action hands. I think on HSP they have antes as well, which promote action?

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Yes, for HSP they play $300/$600 Blinds with a $100 per person ante every hand. Not that it really changes things much because of how much they play for, but the HSP players are also paid a $1250 per hour fee to compensate them for being on the show at all. Oh, and there is no rake on the pot like a normal cash game, nor is there an hours fee to play like some higher stakes card rooms.