Playing Ace Rags

I think these hands are constant small money losers for me so I try not to play them. Say you have A9o and board comes 5AJ potential flush draw for someone else. 3 players are in and either one makes standard 3/4 pot bet. What do you do with your hand?

My range used to be LP limp Ace 2-5, 8+ offsuit and all suited Aces now I have changed my strategy to A2-5, 10+ offsuit.

Also do you like to limp with Ace rag in LP or raise?

Don't open limp. Limp if there are other limpers with suited aces.

Once you have A9o on that board, raise for information. If someone plays back then gtfo. This of course assumes a limped pot, if someone raised preflop (what are you doing in the hand anyway) then throw it away.

Hm thats the problem. I raise for information and get a caller. At that point I am not sure whether to keep pushing cbet or just check. And that first standard bet postflop is quite costly when you add them up. I have to mention I play at micro levels so I probably get a hell lot more callers.

But back to the first example and lets assume it is a limped pot. How would you play to a standard raise?

Are you in position?

If so then check behind on the turn. If you haven't improved by the river or if you face a large bet on either street without improving just get out of the way. Folding may be a mistake, but in the long run it's the smallest mistake.

BLieve said:

But back to the first example and lets assume it is a limped pot. How would you play to a standard raise?

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In a cash game? Fold.

jamesdadeliverer said:

In a cash game? Fold.

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So if that is the case then we are almost playing A9o for set value.

This is my beef with A9o or better yet my most hated hand A7o. In a limped pot with 3-4 players even if we have position, a few things could happen which would make us consider betting. We hit an ace, we hit a set of aces or we hit a set of nines. If we hit the set of nines, that is wonderful not much to consider there. But if we hit top pair I feel like I have to treat my aces as a middle pair due to its kicker. And to some extent, the same applies to a set of aces. While you know where 3 of the aces are at which reduces the chance of the 4th ace being held by someone else, things could get ugly if you are wrong. How many times have we seen entire stacks go away as a trip Ace 6 kicker loses to trip Ace Queen kicker?

My conclusion: Avoid Ace rag. Treat it as a middle pair. I might consider calling or raising for info but it might as well be garbage.

I dont play them, unless in position and (s)

I just read the title ... i was thinking FOLD!!

I just think playing ace rag is such a dangerous way to play and your end up losing....

No Ace rag, can help you alot... I would say raise well in position, i have done so with A2, and won a big pot... just fold to a big raise with A Rag, i have done so and i was right to do so, they had AK, AQ, AJ, A10.... I have been winning with A rag, in ring games, MTTS....
The key is to play it like it like, AK, well in position..
Your best bet is to hit 2 pair, thats were i win the most, 1 pair won't cut it most of the time.

So if that is the case then we are almost playing A9o for set value.

This is my beef with A9o or better yet my most hated hand A7o. In a limped pot with 3-4 players even if we have position, a few things could happen which would make us consider betting. We hit an ace, we hit a set of aces or we hit a set of nines. If we hit the set of nines, that is wonderful not much to consider there. But if we hit top pair I feel like I have to treat my aces as a middle pair due to its kicker. And to some extent, the same applies to a set of aces. While you know where 3 of the aces are at which reduces the chance of the 4th ace being held by someone else, things could get ugly if you are wrong. How many times have we seen entire stacks go away as a trip Ace 6 kicker loses to trip Ace Queen kicker?

My conclusion: Avoid Ace rag. Treat it as a middle pair. I might consider calling or raising for info but it might as well be garbage.

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Your missing out on some great wins, the times i folded ACE rag, i Would of won a big pot, but now i add AX plus KX to my hands.

If you want to keep playing the ABC's of poker, thats fine but, i will run over you in the long run....

Ace Rag vs Ace Rag

Ace Rag wins.........

In online poker, People play Aces like they are coupons. I'd rather wait for a solid hand to play.

yeah im not a fan of Ax either, i would limp with Ax s if i was in mid - late position an the table already had a few limpers, and i may try stealind on the button or cut off with Ax but i certainley throw away alot more A's than i play

For me Ax is the ideal hand to widen my raising range from BTN and CO. With position and a decent table image, they will more often than not win a good deal of small pots, and help you to get paid when you have a big hand in late position.

I would never just call or play them out of position, suited or not, as you need a miracle-like flop to show any profit with them...

i just hate these hands a lot because what are you beating? just a weak kicker....and with all the donkeys out there...its better to wait for stronger hands

If you've got less than half a million hands under your belt, and are not considering yourself to be gods gift to the poker world, and you have an attitude that any ace is golden, then your results will improve once you start mucking A-rag more often.

This will be an exercise in restraint mainly, but over the longer haul, it will help you understand the dynamics of poker. Once you feel you can take A-rag or Leave it, you will start seeing new opportunities and be able to recognize more easily just when a right situation exists.

A-rag in early position...junk, throw it away. A-rag in late position with high blinds/antes. Depending on how well you know your opponents, is a good situation to steal. A-rag heads up, stiff raise.

I like to refer to this chart when I'm thinking about adjusting my play of pairs, K or A. It doesn't cover HOW the hand is played, obviously, but it at least gives some insight to how strong each starting hand is:
http://www.tightpoker.com/hands/ev_position.html

A9o and below is -EV from all positions. AT is marginal. All suited aces are worth something in position but care must be taken from early position.

You're almost never going to feel secure with any ace rag hand barring some miracle flopped boat or quads. Any straight will be the bottom end of the straight, any 2 pair is vulnerable to higher 2 pair or counterfeiting, top pair is difficult to feel comfortable with. Even if you have a good read that the other player has a weak pair they may call your bet anyway and have you slightly outkicked

Ace rag is one of the first hands to start folding as you get more experience. If you need to open up your game, look at things like one gap suited connectors, etc.

Short handed or late in a tournament when you need to gamble things change a bit but it's still a marginal hand.

Reducto said:

A9o and below is -EV from all positions. AT is marginal.

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If A9o is -EV from the button you are playing it wrong. In fact if any hand is -EV from any position other than the blinds you are playing it wrong

AT should not be marginal if you play it in late position. I guess this chart assumes your postflop play is pretty weak.

BLieve said:

So if that is the case then we are almost playing A9o for set value.

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Good luck playing A9o for set value...

I would raise with anything suited lol.. But with aces.. A defiant raise.. Cause once u raise ppl will fold and there card might come up on the flop.. and who knows that ace with a low or high pair might not come so u have to be careful of that.. Dont wanna have ace high and get beat by a 2 or something..

ACe rags??

That is a Suicide ahnd, especially in long game tourneys. sometimes do able in a late position when it is only you and the BB left in the game.

A rag

I only limp with A rag in SB or BB cause I got money in the pot, these hands as you know are dominated by pretty much any PP and all the other Ace combos, the amount of times I get in the money has increased by tossing these weak holdings.

I totally on your level with the A-5 and A - 10+... suited is definitely a plus, and like you were saying A9 either some one will be playing the AJ or A5 there ..lol so more then likely you are done...good post