Playing a draw against a fish?

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jsh169

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Say your in position and your both at right around 100 bbs deep and you know you have no fold equity. Do you bet your naked flush draw on the turn? How about a combo draw? Obviously draws lose their value when they hold no fold equity. I don't know if I've been running bad against these guys or just generally overplaying my hand.
 
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jsh169

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First of all your not fully out bluffing, your semibluffing. Second you want to build a bigger pot in position and third if you don't win the fishes money somebody else will.
 
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GWU73

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If they will not fold, just check behind, and bet when you hit. Save the semi-bluffs for someone who knows how to fold.
 
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ravpl

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I think that u could bet. If opponent call, check the river (unless u hit flush). If he re-raise look on pot odds and make decision call or fold. It's also important what do you do preflop if u raise u should c-bet.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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You can always bet 1/3 pot since you have direct pot odds to justify it if he just calls. If he raises then you have to see about implied odds on the river.

Against people who don't chkraise always bet to inflate the pot.
 
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TheNoobie

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Having no fold equity when you have a real hand is not as bad as you think. It means that players will tend to pay your all-ins more often. Now, about the flush draw - its not that different in playing against fish or an experienced players. You need to calculate your pot odds to make the right decisions in the long run, not in a particular hand. If he is raising you - calculate the pot odds and make sure youre getting positive EV on your calls, if you are in position - make value bets. You could try to check, worth the try if you are not that sure that your flush will hit, to get a free card - its all up to you.
 
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kworm2013

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In my view,it is easy to win much with the strong hand,when the fish with the middle strong hand. Sometimes they don't like to fold.
 
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Sheeyh

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I think you can put 1/3 of the bank. To block this raise, and you will have a semi bluff.
 
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hffjd2000

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Thats why implied odd, comes now in the picture. You semi bluff if you know your implied odds will be very very good.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Well if we are heads up against a fish we are probably better off just checking behind. They are not going to fold any kind of pair. So perhaps just see the draw on the cheap in case the fish takes a weird check raise spew line with middle pair. You never know what some of those eejits are thinking half the time. Against some uber fish we could even 3xpot bet the river on the made flush and they will call you with middle pair after checking it for three streets.
 
Theromeo2k

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Say your in position and your both at right around 100 bbs deep and you know you have no fold equity. Do you bet your naked flush draw on the turn? How about a combo draw? Obviously draws lose their value when they hold no fold equity. I don't know if I've been running bad against these guys or just generally overplaying my hand.

I suggest only betting for value your combo draws like: OESD, OESFD, and FDs with a pair. Bet the flop big with these draws, for instance, 3/4 pot or even pot it if the fish tends to be more stationy. On the turn, I would keep betting again for value with a FD and middle pair since the fish can't resist calling you down with any pair. You can also take your free card (if possible) and decide river whether you hit or not.
 
Stevepdx

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I like LD1977's line of betting 1/3 pot to give us "direct pot odds" or checking and trying to make a strong hand vs the calling station.

No reason to bluff against the fish if you have no fold equity.
 
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Swickster007

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I like the to bet a flush draw just to build the pot, then I usually check if it hits, in which I have often had my opponent raise me even without having a flush. Obviously fold if you don't hit the flush...
 
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seanbee01

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OooOo the fish always wins , well against me anyway :-(
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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If you have no fold equity, then unless you have specific circumstances that make you feel betting is +EV, why bet? For instance, maybe you have a big enough combo draw to make you the favorite. Or perhaps your opponent is the type who calls one street very wide but won't call two without a pretty strong hand.
 
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ioannisk73

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Bet 1/3 is the best for semibluff and build the pot
 
BearPlay

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Check behind and go from there if he lost his fold button. Raise him up when you've got the goods and he'll come wagging ;)
 
Aces2w1n

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checking behind is great.... You appear weak and we either have Nothing or the nuts :). As well has having pot control which is seriously awesome tool to use in this case because a ton of times we wont make this hand at all and we may as well have reverse implied odds. So we save some money, appear weak which will totally give us a great image for when we are strong!

Also remember fish don't know how to build up pots properly and they might as well have trips or 2 pair, so when they raise to you and you simply re-raise they might shove with their strong hands but if you don't make the hand and you check behind and c they have a strong holding then just pat yourself on the back since you saved some money!


And if its a decent card with the flush say a Q K or even A , fishies will like it and bet and won't put us on any draws... It looks a bit more predictable when your aggressive with draws on the table but if you look weak/passive well then they'll milk u but u can milk the milker and give a big F U!!! :) stuff em put em on tilt and get em asap again :)
 
SANDYHOOKER KY

SANDYHOOKER KY

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Check raise, check raise, set the hook and reel'em in. If you miss your hand, well, back to the bait shop. Sooner or later, you'll hook the big one.
 
doncaster

doncaster

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you can tell us what you did and why,but you can never work out why a fish does what he does.....impossible ....
A good player will usually fold when you make a bet and he realises you have the nuts.A good player is more predictable than a fish..that's why I am sorry for you but ...that's poker baby !!
You will win a lot and lose a lot to all types of players including fish...that is fact
 
tenbob

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If we have no fold equity then its a simple solution.

Check behind flop/turn. Shove when we make our hand, because we know we have no fold equity and are always getting called.
 
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torosanti012

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I much prefer to get made hands against fish and then bet bet bet because they're usually calling stations and just don't fold. But with draws and hands that could become the best I try to control the pot, keep it small and maximize value the times I do hit the right cards!
 
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