Play tight early on. All-in bluffs? Session=1 big hand. Setting $ losing limits.

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RickAversion

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1) When playing a cash buy-in for a few hours, I think it's smart to law low the first 30-60 mins. That way you can get to learn the playing style of the players. I bought into a cash game, and got into a big hand almost immediately. So, I had no idea if the opponent was a loose or aggressive player. I had no idea if he was a loose gun or tight as hell (who just went all in). Playing in the dark. I made the mistake of playing a big hand much too soon.

2) I think in low stakes cash games ($300 buy in), people rarely bluff their all-ins. If a guy goes all in, he's risking going home. He probably has the nuts. Is this your experience?

3) Patience is the key. Your entire night basically comes down to 1 big hand that will make or break you. You might as well wait for it. 90% of your cash moves come down to 10% of your hands (all ins, etc)

4) Setting limits on losing. Lost $300. I think if I lose $300 a few more times, I am going to put the brakes on this hobby. Money adds up, then next thing you know, you've got to explain why you lost $2500 gambling. Now, we're talking real money. I can easily afford to lose $2500 gambling, but that doesn't mean I want to. How do you set limits? I think if I lose $3000, I will cut this off. Or, if I lose $300 more than 3 times in a row, it's time to take a break. Or something like that

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the thoughts above.
 
IPlay

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So basically your strategy is to wait to get the nuts and shove all in? Pretty exploitable and I think you are going to have a hard time profiting with this strategy.

Just think, you sit down at a table for an hour and see this one guy that does not play a hand the whole time. Then suddenly he gets a a hand and goes crazy, what do you do? A thinking player would fold majority of the time.
 
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So basically your strategy is to wait to get the nuts and shove all in? Pretty exploitable and I think you are going to have a hard time profiting with this strategy.

Just think, you sit down at a table for an hour and see this one guy that does not play a hand the whole time. Then suddenly he gets a a hand and goes crazy, what do you do? A thinking player would fold majority of the time.

How the heck did you arrive at that conclusion from my post?
That is not at all what I said.
I said stay out of big hands for the first hour until you get a sense of player styles. Then get more involved.
 
bilbo63

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When I think of "low stakes" I think micro but,for me, $300 is a lot of money to gamble with. But I'm just a recreational player atm so I would not be betting that much money in a month let alone at a single session.
I do agree that people are less likely to take wild chances at higher stakes tables than micro tables (unless their millionaires or something).
I tend to play my game regardless of how long I've been sitting at a table and adjust as time goes on as I learn other players betting profiles.
As far as setting limits on losing goes, I base my limits on how much I willing to lose in a month. If variance is killing me and I'm close to reaching my limit, I would rather drop down a level or two until my luck change.
I would rather just take a break until my variance changes rather than give up the hobby completely because I love playing poker!
 
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When I think of "low stakes" I think micro but,for me, $300 is a lot of money to gamble with.

Well, it's 1/2 NL, so $300 is 150BB. Pretty standard. People sometimes walk out losing $500 after more than 1 buy-in. The game lasts 12 hours.
 
DrazaFFT

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Well, it's 1/2 NL, so $300 is 150BB. Pretty standard. People sometimes walk out losing $500 after more than 1 buy-in. The game lasts 12 hours.

I don't think that he realized that you were talking about live game.
About your op it is always a good idea to stay away of big pots and tough decisions with unknown players, so i agree that you can backpedaling at start till you have some idea of your opponents, some players you'll figure faster than other, with players that you already figured out there is no need to be to tight if you have reads and info on his range and style, putting a time mark on whole table is not smart but i didnt think that you meant literally that.

Are you playing poker for fun or you are serious about poker? If you wanna play for fun you can set a cap of how much you wanna spend until you call it a night. If you are serious about poker you need bankroll management, you need to be stacked to play limits you play and then there is no difference were you up or down you need to play as long as you see that you play your optimal game, you shouldn't quit just because you double up or just because you lost a flip or cooler and you clearly have an edge over the opponents...

just my 2 cents

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
 
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But, this is just fun money. I have a career and savings.
Just playing for fun. Sure, I'd like to win, of course.
 
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But, this is just fun money. I have a career and savings.
Just playing for fun. Sure, I'd like to win, of course.

It sounds like a lot of fun, where exactly do you play? :D
 
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If you're having problems on losing a couple of buy-ins I think you should just move down the stakes. No matter how good you play, you must have a proper bankroll to support your downswings. I do agree to your point though, I lost my whole buy-in of a 100BB in a pot trips vs full house, because I had no idea what my opponents ranges were. I just grinded it back up, no problem. If you follow the rules of proper bankroll management, you should never buy in for more than 5% of your bankroll in cash games, so assuming you were at the limit, you'd need at least a $6000 bakroll for these stakes. It could be looser for you, as it's just a hobby, but the core remains. I'm sorry if this was all well known to you, but I was just trying to help as best as I could.
 
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You can't move down in stakes from live 1/2.

In general at the casino's I find that tight play at 1/2 is rewarded. Most of the players are fairly bad and fairly predictable. It's not that dissimilar from 5, 10, or 25 nl online.

I have very rarely seen someone bluff all-in live at these stakes. People call too loose and bet real tight. That has been my understanding. In general I bet my holdings and have no problems making money.

A tight aggressive game really exploits most of the players I have seen. Since a lot of players call too loose and will give up when they miss the flop you can c-bet pretty wide and take down pots. When you get resistance you can let it go, unless you hit and then you can get a pretty big pot.

Mostly big pots need big hands live.
 
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Ubercroz, I played another live 1/2NL game. I saw improvement in my game, based on my reading.

The fish is the one who never lays down a hand.
"Small hand, small pot. Big hand, big pot"
Your calling hand must be a lot stronger than your raising hand.

These recently learned sayings helped me last night. Last few times I played, I busted out my entire decent night on when making a bad call. This time, I did not go into a big hand with just a pair.
I had A8, flopped the A. villain goes all in before me. This time, I folded. He had a straight. Good lay down!!
Also, in small stakes, I've learned when villain goes all in, they usually have something big. People rarely bluff all-in, b/c otherwise, they're going home.


My winning hands centered about pocket pairs.
I played them decently, and they paid off most times!
  • Pocket 6. I just called the blinds....Every checks the flop, I bet 10. One caller. Junk turn. Bet $20. He folds.
  • Pocket JJ...I bet $15 pre-flop. Everyone checks. Eventually, heads' up and pot is about $100. I bet $50. He folded his Ace pair. (People WAY overestimate what you have)
  • Pocket 4s There is a $10 raise before me. I hit the set. Villains raises again. Keep calling. Checks the river, I bet $20 into $50 pot. He calls, and I show trip 4's.
  • A8...I flop Ace. Villain shoves. I fold. Villain had straight. I showed my A8 to the table. I had a very tight image that I was able to exploit later.
  • Pocket 8s. I bet $12. Two callers. I c-bet $20. Take the pot.

I played off-suit connectors a few times. But, if anyone raised, I folded them, but if it was $2 to see the flop, I did this. If the call was $7+, then I folded. Is this the right idea?

Position. I have also become more naturally aware of late position and OTB position. I won a few hands just based on raising when everyone folded to me.

I do not understand why people "Mississippi" or "straddle". Why bet before you see your cards, and everyone knows it. Carries no strength.
You're just making a fake bigger blind for yourself. Raising after seeing your cards conveys strength. I guess people do this to look loose and aggressive, or b/c they know some arcane rule, to look experienced?

I saw lots of players keep re-buying in for $100 (50BB). I bought in for 100BB and never went much below it. I never went all-in, but was able to raise $50 to get one guy to fold.
In a room of $100 stacks, a $50 bet can often clear the table. Even if the pot is like $300. This is where the leaks are. People not playing proper pot odds when the pot is big (unless they have the nuts)

I noticed one guy always raising aggressively when he had a draw. Last night, he lost many times, b/c he wasn't hitting his draws.
What are your thoughts on this style of play? He is playing fold/bluff equity, but when it doesn't work, he was better off seeing free cards, and only betting when he made his hand.

In all, it was a good night, and I more than doubled my buy-in. Walked before I gave it all back. Felt good to have a winning night, and to avoid a few bad hands.[/QUOTE]
 
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Also, in small stakes, I've learned when villain goes all in, they usually have something big. People rarely bluff all-in, b/c otherwise, they're going home.

I played off-suit connectors a few times. But, if anyone raised, I folded them, but if it was $2 to see the flop, I did this. If the call was $7+, then I folded. Is this the right idea?

In general I would not advocate this. Partly because of your next point, position. If you limp (call the $2 bet) then you are out of position and likely against many players. I would prefer to just fold or raise. Connectors - suited or otherwise - are fine to play in later positions (button, cut-off). However, I would typically only be playing them against either (1) multiple opponents when there was an early bet [not good for newer players] or (2) when there have been a number of limping players and I raise [at these stake $8 +$2 for every limper]. This lets me win a good amount of money often when everyone folds and lets me use position on the flop.

Position. I have also become more naturally aware of late position and OTB position. I won a few hands just based on raising when everyone folded to me.

Exactly right, good job. Don't get crazy, because you can get in a bad spot.

I do not understand why people "Mississippi" or "straddle". Why bet before you see your cards, and everyone knows it. Carries no strength.
You're just making a fake bigger blind for yourself. Raising after seeing your cards conveys strength. I guess people do this to look loose and aggressive, or b/c they know some arcane rule, to look experienced?

What it does is inflate the pot and allow them to have a better relative position pre-flop. I'm not a big fan personally. Some people just want to juice the pot or seem like bad asses.

I saw lots of players keep re-buying in for $100 (50BB). I bought in for 100BB and never went much below it. I never went all-in, but was able to raise $50 to get one guy to fold.
In a room of $100 stacks, a $50 bet can often clear the table. Even if the pot is like $300. This is where the leaks are. People not playing proper pot odds when the pot is big (unless they have the nuts)

no joke. I think I like this table you are at, what Casino is this? :D

I noticed one guy always raising aggressively when he had a draw. Last night, he lost many times, b/c he wasn't hitting his draws.
What are your thoughts on this style of play? He is playing fold/bluff equity, but when it doesn't work, he was better off seeing free cards, and only betting when he made his hand.

This can work in his favor, if done correctly. The idea is that you can fold out hands some of the time and win sometimes when they call anyway. If people are calling all the time and don't fold to that aggression, its not really worth it. But if people sometimes fold, then it can actually be profitable - again you can't be crazy about it, but it can be good.

In all, it was a good night, and I more than doubled my buy-in. Walked before I gave it all back. Felt good to have a winning night, and to avoid a few bad hands.

Very nice, keep it up and don't get ****y - but those are some good results for the night. And don't get down on yourself when things don't work out IF you are making the right decisions. Poker can be a bitch.
 
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In general I would not advocate this. Partly because of your next point, position. If you limp (call the $2 bet) then you are out of position and likely against many players. I would prefer to just fold or raise. Connectors - suited or otherwise - are fine to play in later positions (button, cut-off). However, I would typically only be playing them against either (1) multiple opponents when there was an early bet [not good for newer players] or (2) when there have been a number of limping players and I raise [at these stake $8 +$2 for every limper]. This lets me win a good amount of money often when everyone folds and lets me use position on the flop.


And don't get down on yourself when things don't work out IF you are making the right decisions. Poker can be a bitch.

I meant I would call the $2 BB to see the flop. If anyone actually bet, I would generally fold. But, for very small stakes, I am willing to see a few more flops. This will loosen my image, and when I do hit a straight, I will make it back. Plus, always a chance of top pair.

Lots to learn to optimize my EV, but am well aware that you can play perfect poker for a years straight, and still lose big. This is only a hobby for me.
 
Aces2w1n

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So basically your strategy is to wait to get the nuts and shove all in? Pretty exploitable and I think you are going to have a hard time profiting with this strategy.

Just think, you sit down at a table for an hour and see this one guy that does not play a hand the whole time. Then suddenly he gets a a hand and goes crazy, what do you do? A thinking player would fold majority of the time.



+1 because of the response it got lol :)

Waiting around is really not so great. You as a player should take no more than 1 cycle to get a feel of the table how aggressive it is. If your waiting an hour there is going to be a ton of hands you maybe missing out on.

I've sat down and looked at AA first hand and hit trips on the flop and they hit trip Kings... Anyways point is you'll look passive/weak and everyone will want to push you around or totally avoid you.

What if your pocket pair only hit for the first hour to hit trips? All this money u've lost then you've woken up ready to play to be carddead. Fail I think since you don't know when or if you'll be card dead.
 
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I think you're reading me too literally.
Obviously, I play TAG if I am dealt AA in my first hand.
The point was, I took some time to get a feel for the table.
There's nothing worse than going all in and stacked in the first 10 mins.
 
Aces2w1n

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I think you're reading me too literally.
Obviously, I play TAG if I am dealt AA in my first hand.
The point was, I took some time to get a feel for the table.
There's nothing worse than going all in and stacked in the first 10 mins.

Order a coffee or something and sitout completely :) And enjoy the game around... Not just appear folding a lot.

A lot of advice is to just sit there and watch a few cycles before entering... I guess a good way to disguise what your doing is ordering a drink, getting an extra pillow for your chair. I don't know about your casino but crown melb have ppl who give out massages :) get 1 while ur watching.
 
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Order a coffee or something and sitout completely :) And enjoy the game around... Not just appear folding a lot.

A lot of advice is to just sit there and watch a few cycles before entering... I guess a good way to disguise what your doing is ordering a drink, getting an extra pillow for your chair. I don't know about your casino but crown melb have ppl who give out massages :) get 1 while ur watching.

I think she (I presume) is not saying to fold every hand for the first hour, but rather to play a little extra tight for a few orbits.

Thats probably very good advice.

Honestly I have NEVER had a problem when playing tight at the casino. People don't get out of your way when you bet because they are stupid.

Play tight, pay attention, and you will be fine. 1/2 at the casino is incredibly beatable.

I tend to play tight all the time, so I don't really tighten up for the first hour, I always just play tight. Its pretty great.
 
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laying low is not going to do much good with premium hands at the beginning of a session. Playing live your going to wait for so long for a premium hand that u should always capitalize on it when you can. just don't end up the old man/TAG overplaying his hand even though he has folded the last hr and raised pre flop in position and been check snap called twice an still shoves on the river only too find out AK top pr top kicker lost to 2 under pr on the turn. your most likely going to get called 3-4 handed to the flop in a live cash game even if you raised 5x BB. If you play 2 pr or better it can really keep your win rate up , top pr 4 handed at a lows cash game will have all kinds of draws calling and need to be treated with caution , also at 1-2 or 2-5 i don't shove until the turn. if someone has the draw they call all ins all the time at these stakes , wait until a draw card misses and bet hard on the turn. also don't bluff at a 1-2 or 2-5 it just is not profitable for most players. you do have to loosen up in position though. at least the last 2 spots, play all kinds of hands for cheap to try and hit 2 pr,trips or a strong draw. a lot of pots even though will have no raise pre flop , will end up being ridiculously big because someone bets top pr all the way and that pre flop call pot odds can return crazy big implied odds. especially if someone bets and its a small portion of your stack to double up. i chase all kinds of stuff if i know i will double up. position is important though .
 
Aces2w1n

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I think she (I presume) is not saying to fold every hand for the first hour, but rather to play a little extra tight for a few orbits.

Thats probably very good advice.

Honestly I have NEVER had a problem when playing tight at the casino. People don't get out of your way when you bet because they are stupid.

Play tight, pay attention, and you will be fine. 1/2 at the casino is incredibly beatable.

I tend to play tight all the time, so I don't really tighten up for the first hour, I always just play tight. Its pretty great.


Yes it works great especially when your playing against unknown people who are there just looking to have a good time.

When you hit a table full of regs though ppl will exploit but I guess even the regs are bad and some regs are known gamblers and I love the ones who talk u through their hand :)



Laying low is good I guess... To get your focus in mainly. I think it takes me a lil bit before I'm on the same page as everyone. Unless it's obvious everyones spewing then it's easy to judge.
 
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