Play Along With ME (KK UTG+1 $5/$5 Live cash game)

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luckbox85

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Im UTG +1 in a Live 5/5.

UTG limps
I look Down and I have

:kd4::kh4:

Its a very action 10 handed table and no there's about 5 to 6 callers to a standard $20 raise.

I have about $550 to start the hand.
I have been playing very tight and have the winning hand every time at showdown, and I've been playing for about 4 hours now.


I don't want to see more than one 2 callers and the player currently on the button has been playing back at me the whole night after taking a nice pot from her and then stacking her the next hand we played. So she's out to get me and I know that most likely she will be calling specially since she is on the button.

I raise to $30 and 3 people call. The button, the BB and UTG.

$120 pot

Flop:

BB checks
UTG Bets $100

I have not played a single hand with him and this is my first time seeing this player.

I did see him call pretty light earlier on to another player, but I dont know if its just because hes a bad player or because he had a good read.

He started the hand with about $800

As far as the two people behind me...

The Button has about $500 and BB about $600

I though about what he could have that he could beat me with at this point and why he decided to bet instead of having me bet out first.

:jc4::10s4: and :5h4::5d4: are the hands that would make sense that could beat me. However in only drawing almost dead to the 55, but the J10 I still have a lot more outs or runner runner possibilities.

The hands that he could have that I beat could be
aj-jq
open ended straight flush draw, in which case I have 2 blockers and it would be less likely.

made sense since he probably didnt want to see the flop. And it seemed like a good flop for him.

Ok so I want to know what your guys opinion is as far as what range he could have, and what could I do at this point and why....
 
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sstone139224

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what was the flop? or did i just miss it?
 
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luckbox85

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I donno why it didnt come out. Anyhow the flop was :jh4::10h4::5c4:
 
the_wonk

the_wonk

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gross spot. he's donking into you, fairly large, even though he has great relative position AND it being a 4-way flop. but it's also a really wet board.

raising would be spew. i call and play poker. assuming utg fires turn again you'll have to make your decision on whether or not to go with your hand then. also, it may seem super nitty, but against some opps where i knew more about them i'd actually fold to this lead. you don't have enough info to consider that here tho imo, since he could be betting a number of worse hands for value/protection still (primarily AJ.)

i'm ranging him on something like AJ, KQ, sets, JT, and nut flush draws (including Ah5h), but i'm discounting the 9-out or less draws a good bit. and there are less combo draws out there for him to have since you have the Kh, so that hurts you some.
 
PershingSt

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Im just gonna call here, I think his range includes ; 55 , 10 10 , jj , j10, kq , kj, aj , qj, qq , 89 ? and some flush draws . Vs this range I feel like calling is the best option , as we still beat a large portion of his range and if we raised the hands we beat would fold and we are left with the hands that crush us . Like a guy above said , Im calling and playing poker on later streets .
 
ScooperNova

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You could safely assume many hands, including flush draws with open ended straight draws. I will not fold an open ended straight flush draw on the flop.
 
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luckbox85

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OK so its pretty clear that I made a bad play here...

I decided that I did not want to have any of the 2 people behind me call if I flat the 100.

I figured that if I raised I could get any flush draws or straight draws off the hand. And yes of course you always want people to call when they are not getting proper odds, but in this case I just wanted to play heads up with villain.

I wanted to make a raise to only get the 2 other players off the hand but not too big to blow up the pot.

So I figured a min raise would make this happen.

When I think back at it, I realize that that actually doesn't make sense, because if the 2 players behind me had a very strong hand, they would most likely re-raise. If they don't have a strong enough hand they would just fold to the 100 bet either way. So that was a pretty bad play on my part when I carefully analyze it.


OK so I make it $200 and the 2 players behind me fold and villain calls.

POT: ~$500 (after rake)

TURN: :7h4:

He goes all in and covers me.

What would you put him on and what would you do?
 
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luckbox85

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gross spot. he's donking into you, fairly large, even though he has great relative position AND it being a 4-way flop. but it's also a really wet board.

raising would be spew. i call and play poker. assuming utg fires turn again you'll have to make your decision on whether or not to go with your hand then. also, it may seem super nitty, but against some opps where i knew more about them i'd actually fold to this lead. you don't have enough info to consider that here tho imo, since he could be betting a number of worse hands for value/protection still (primarily AJ.)

i'm ranging him on something like AJ, KQ, sets, JT, and nut flush draws (including Ah5h), but i'm discounting the 9-out or less draws a good bit. and there are less combo draws out there for him to have since you have the Kh, so that hurts you some.

I really like your hand rading
 
PershingSt

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With the flush draw getting there , as well as 89 completing the straight. I would just fold here as I don't think we are beating much now . We could be drawing completely dead , even though the price is relatively good after your flop min raise . I am not a fan of the raise bc I think it just forces all the hand we beat to fold and only huge draws / better hands continue . Better to not compound one mistake with another .
 
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da_goat

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With the flush draw getting there , as well as 89 completing the straight. I would just fold here as I don't think we are beating much now . We could be drawing completely dead , even though the price is relatively good after your flop min raise . I am not a fan of the raise bc I think it just forces all the hand we beat to fold and only huge draws / better hands continue . Better to not compound one mistake with another .

I agree with this.
 
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da_goat

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I think big pairs are tough to play especially when there are multi-players and board shows flush/straight possibilities.
 
the_wonk

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this was a good hand to post because it illustrates how easy it is to take lines with overpairs that fail to maximize value, and that may also lead to getting stacked in some avoidable spots, a very common leak.

2 thoughts for your consideration:

1) often in poker you have competing concerns tugging you in different directions, and it's often impossible to craft a bet-size that accomplishes everything you want. here, you want to raise to shut out draws behind you, but you also don't want to put yourself in a position where you're only getting action when beat or creating a pot-size on the flop that is going to leave you with a lot of gross turn decisions.

**it's very common for less experienced players to value pricing out draws almost exclusively compared to other concerns in the hand.

2) before you make a bet try to determine your plan of action against the most likely lines/action that will follow. e.g., when i flat the donk bettor i'm doing so with the intent of folding if one of the later position players goes all-in AND utg calls. i've determined that, assuming opps are pretty reasonable, it's too much of a parlay to hope i'm good against BOTH of them AND that i'll stay good by the river considering the odds i'm getting. if the later position players fold and the turn comes something other than a heart, ace, or jack, i'm planning to raise any bet from utg (probably piling), or bet myself if checked to.

so what was your plan when you raised the flop OP? i get the feeling that you were thinking strategically about what you wanted on the flop, but that you hadn't developed a plan for later streets, as what happened was a fairly likely occurrence. and now you're in yet another gross spot, eh?
 
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