Plan to improve Cash Games

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stefanorb

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Hello Cardschat! I started studying to improve my game two months ago. I had quite a lucky time, i triplicated my bankroll and cashed out. Well, since i cashed out i started playing bad and worse until i almost lost my whole bankroll.
I think i just dont have the basics to run a solid profit game, and i thought about list out some points to work on, and i am asking you for help on building the list and work on the singles points in the best way. I would like to make it like an university course, in which there are a subject, a suggested book and a way to practice.

The points i thought until now are:

-FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GAME - Book: Harrington on Online Cash Games - Practice: 1 hour/day playing at tables.
-HAND PLANNING - Professional No-Limit Hold'em Vol.I - Practice: 30 min/day dealing random hands and creating scenarios and planning
-POKER MATHS - Book: Gaine's Poker Math that Matters - Practice: 30 min/day dealing random hands and random bets using dice. Counting out, pot odds, decision, and continue dealing hand for see if i was right. Work with Equilab
-HAND READING - Book: Gaine's Hole Cards Confessions (any better one?) Practice: Observe table 30 min/day and listing hand ranges. Check the times i was right
-BANKROLL MANAGEMENT - Book: ??? - Practice: ???
-HEADS UP STRATEGY - Book: Tipton's Heads Up Strategy for No Limit Hold-Em Vol. 1-2 Practice: 45 min/day playing heads up tables
-POKER tells - Book: Caro's Book of poker tells - Practice: 2hours/week watching live poker and spotting tells

Any other point Cardschat? Any practice, book, suggestion??

If somebody is interested in developing in the same way, we could create a study group. Let me know

Stefano
 
Fknife

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Tipton's books can be a bit too "advanced" for you, especially that you listed Harrington as your "Fundamentals of the game" book. IMO just go with the good, old "Applications of No-Limit Holdem" if you want some theory.
 
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stefanorb

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hi fknife!! what do you suggest for developing a strong, solid fundamentals? Harrington seems pretty basic, and still i forget to apply big part that is in the book. Pratically i read, read and then when i am at the table i make no account, no observation of the flop, etc. It just goes like this, i developed some sense of position and of bet sizing, but that's all. What is my problem?
 
Marcwantstowin

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Hi Stefano. I would think by looking at your original post and your reply that the only thing you may need to do is put some time in on the tables. It is all well and good reading how to play in certain situations or what you should be thinking about but the only way you will adapt these things for yourself, and consequently improve your game is play.

I would not expect to see a revolution in your game over night but you should see some improvement in 4 - 6 weeks. You will be spending quite a lot of money if you brought or downloaded all the books you mention and I would say you are trying to pile too much pressure on yourself to learn everything too quick.

Obviously I don't know what sort of bankroll, (or how experienced you are), you have but it is best to learn at the lower stakes, where if you pick up a few things like check-raising or when to continuation bet and when not. Perhaps something else like what type of opponent you are playing? Are they LAG, (Loose and Aggressive) or TAG, (Tight and Aggressive), and what type of style you should play against them to win the most money?

My main point is that there is really a lot of things to learn about poker and there is always ONE point that we should always remember - Make sure you enjoy playing otherwise there is no point.

There are alot of useful tools you can use on here...........and plenty of good players who will be able to answer your questions. Take advantage of that and you will be able to improve your standard in poker, but it will take time. GL and Run Good.................:D :D :D
 
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Tipton's books can be a bit too "advanced" for you, especially that you listed Harrington as your "Fundamentals of the game" book. IMO just go with the good, old "Applications of No-Limit Holdem" if you want some theory.

Isnt Applications of NO Limit quite advanced
 
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stefanorb

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Hi Stefano. I would think by looking at your original post and your reply that the only thing you may need to do is put some time in on the tables. It is all well and good reading how to play in certain situations or what you should be thinking about but the only way you will adapt these things for yourself, and consequently improve your game is play.

I would not expect to see a revolution in your game over night but you should see some improvement in 4 - 6 weeks. You will be spending quite a lot of money if you brought or downloaded all the books you mention and I would say you are trying to pile too much pressure on yourself to learn everything too quick.

There are alot of useful tools you can use on here...........and plenty of good players who will be able to answer your questions. Take advantage of that and you will be able to improve your standard in poker, but it will take time. GL and Run Good.................:D :D :D

Thank you Marc, your post made me think a lot. 1st i think you are right, and i thought it, but i will describe you the feeling i have. When i am at the table, i dont feel like i have nothing i am working on. i basically keep on playing the same poker, or the changes are so few that i cannot notice (not in profit, more like in the pro mentality) it seems to me i just dont have time during playing a hand to think about the informations i can get and how to play a hand.

Here is where comes my idea of study. If i read one chapter, and in the subsequent pratic i focus on applying that chapter - maybe my results will get better. I dont know if my situation will change, but i am giving it a try.

What do you think about it? and what do you think about practicing with play money?
 
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rhombus

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Thank you Marc, your post made me think a lot. 1st i think you are right, and i thought it, but i will describe you the feeling i have. When i am at the table, i dont feel like i have nothing i am working on. i basically keep on playing the same poker, or the changes are so few that i cannot notice (not in profit, more like in the pro mentality) it seems to me i just dont have time during playing a hand to think about the informations i can get and how to play a hand.

Here is where comes my idea of study. If i read one chapter, and in the subsequent pratic i focus on applying that chapter - maybe my results will get better. I dont know if my situation will change, but i am giving it a try.

What do you think about it? and what do you think about practicing with play money?

Get the fundamentals then - the part of focus on one part at a time is ok

Dont go with play money as totally different game and you will start to doubt everything you ever learned.

Play money is just to learn the basics like hand strength and get the feeling for playing online poker
 
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stefanorb

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Get the fundamentals then - the part of focus on one part at a time is ok

Dont go with play money as totally different game and you will start to doubt everything you ever learned.

Play money is just to learn the basics like hand strength and get the feeling for playing online poker

Thank you rhombus! I think i will do this, and expecially i will not focus on profit/losses, counting that are the price of my training.

Just to know, what do you think about the books and the points i've listed? can you suggest me something to get better, like a training site, bot, youtube channel etc?

Do you think is better to focus on a book and when finished move on or divide the subjects by days of the week?

Thank you!
 
Fknife

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[..]What is my problem?
You lack experience. It comes with time, huge amounts of hands played and observations.

When i am at the table, i dont feel like i have nothing i am working on. i basically keep on playing the same poker, or the changes are so few that i cannot notice [..]
Maybe because you are reading too general, "all and nothing" type of content that is obviosly hard to apply. Choose one specific, simple concept each week, break it down completely and focus on applying that specific thing at each seassion throughout the entire week. Also, I've already recommended you another great book in your last thread (hint: "Easy Game 3rd Edition"), which was actually entirely written based on various concepts so its easy to just read one chapter (= one concept), think it through and apply it to your game immediately. Give this book a try ffs, you wont regret it - I've read it like 4 times (especially the first part) but I still keep coming back to it because there is always something new which I've missed.

Oh and did I mention experience?

Isnt Applications of NO Limit quite advanced
It can be a bit if you're not used to that kind of material/approach but nobody said its gonna be easy :)
 
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stefanorb

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Choose one specific, simple concept each week, break it down completely and focus on applying that specific thing at each seassion throughout the entire week. Also, I've already recommended you another great book in your last thread (hint: "Easy Game 3rd Edition"), which was actually entirely written based on various concepts so its easy to just read one chapter (= one concept), think it through and apply it to your game immediately.

Yes fknife, i remember your book and that would have been my next step since it goes a little more forward than harrington as you said. I was giving a read here , i think is just a part of the book, and probably the 1st edition, and starting to plan to cashout again to buy (which is kind of expensive tho, 40euro on amazn it, anyway im sure is worth the price) but then i had this two days. i lost my bankroll to stupid plays, i really dont even know what changed in this time, so i stopped and i asked myself if i knew the basics, and the answer was no. i do not apply nothing of harrington or gaines, so i thought that maybe it was not time to move forward. Before, when i had 3 times my bankroll, i was really confident about moving on instead.

I read a lot of reviews of this book after you suggested me, it was everything super good and enthusiastic. If you tell me that is going to give me an help in my situation i am ready for the investment despite of my losses.

Maybe, you could give me a help in applying the contents!

Thank you fknife!
 
Fknife

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I read a lot of reviews of this book after you suggested me, it was everything super good and enthusiastic. If you tell me that is going to give me an help in my situation i am ready for the investment despite of my losses.
Well, I cant guarantee you anything. Buying the best cookbook wont make you a great cook etc, it takes time, dedication, a lot of your own work and experience. Generally, you should not spend your BR on buying things unless its big enough so that you will be still comfortable playing at your current limit. Obviously, its nice to be able to use some of that money you won playing poker but imo at the beginning, its better to treat it as a learning experience and all those other additional expenses (software, training sites, books etc) as an investment (I know that some noobs are even willing to spend 90 euros for every 1h of coaching session, even though they are only playing 2NL) or as a hobby.

Maybe, you could give me a help in applying the contents!

Sure, just post whatever is causing you any trouble or you dont understand.
 
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stefanorb

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Well, I cant guarantee you anything. Buying the best cookbook wont make you a great cook etc, it takes time, dedication, a lot of your own work and experience. Generally, you should not spend your BR on buying things unless its big enough so that you will be still comfortable playing at your current limit. Obviously, its nice to be able to use some of that money you won playing poker but imo at the beginning, its better to treat it as a learning experience and all those other additional expenses (software, training sites, books etc) as an investment (I know that some noobs are even willing to spend 90 euros for every 1h of coaching session, even though they are only playing 2NL) or as a hobby.

Yes, it is a good idea about the money to invest practicing. Better to lose the money won than to deposit again, and buy with money i already commit to buying.


Sure, just post whatever is causing you any trouble or you dont understand.

Thank you! I really hope i will get better soon, and i think one of my problems is to be the only person to like poker around me. It will help to have somebody to discuss a little what i study and my mistakes at the table
 
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You are dedicated. I think you should focus on a proper career, and not poker. Play poker for fun hobby
 
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Hello Cardschat! I started studying to improve my game two months ago. I had quite a lucky time, i triplicated my bankroll and cashed out. Well, since i cashed out i started playing bad and worse until i almost lost my whole bankroll.
I think i just dont have the basics to run a solid profit game, and i thought about list out some points to work on, and i am asking you for help on building the list and work on the singles points in the best way. I would like to make it like an university course, in which there are a subject, a suggested book and a way to practice.

The points i thought until now are:

-FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GAME - Book: Harrington on Online Cash Games - Practice: 1 hour/day playing at tables.
-HAND PLANNING - Professional No-Limit Hold'em Vol.I - Practice: 30 min/day dealing random hands and creating scenarios and planning
-POKER MATHS - Book: Gaine's Poker Math that Matters - Practice: 30 min/day dealing random hands and random bets using dice. Counting out, pot odds, decision, and continue dealing hand for see if i was right. Work with Equilab
-HAND READING - Book: Gaine's Hole Cards Confessions (any better one?) Practice: Observe table 30 min/day and listing hand ranges. Check the times i was right
-BANKROLL MANAGEMENT - Book: ??? - Practice: ???
-HEADS UP STRATEGY - Book: Tipton's Heads Up Strategy for No Limit Hold-Em Vol. 1-2 Practice: 45 min/day playing heads up tables
-POKER TELLS - Book: Caro's Book of poker tells - Practice: 2hours/week watching live poker and spotting tells

Any other point Cardschat? Any practice, book, suggestion??

If somebody is interested in developing in the same way, we could create a study group. Let me know

Stefano
Good plan.
It is nice to know that you are trying to improve your game with a good plan.
And study groups are also good plan to learn and master these type of games.
Keep it up, good luck.:) :)
 
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stefanorb

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You are dedicated. I think you should focus on a proper career, and not poker. Play poker for fun hobby

Thank you rick, i appreciate really what you said! I have some plans for my career, but my life in this last time is a little strange, i am traveling around and i am never in the same place, and i am understanding it will be like this for a while. So, i am finding a way to make money wherever i am, to survive.

I hope one day i will use my dedication on my career. When i will, i will have a hobby that makes me extra money. Perfect, no? ;)

Best
 
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stefanorb

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Good plan.
It is nice to know that you are trying to improve your game with a good plan.
And study groups are also good plan to learn and master these type of games.
Keep it up, good luck.:) :)

Thank you! I hope i will find somebody with my same determination to improve for my study group. Even if, with CardsChat, i dont mind studying alone and discuss here with you all

Good luck to you too ;)
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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No need to buy any books. Everything you could possibly need is free online, not the books you have mentioned, but good quality articles and videos.
 
Danjwarburton

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Poker is easy, period. In fact, at 10nl and below it is so easy that people overcomplicate it trying all these fancy things when in reality all that is needed is consistency of the fundamentals and patience/volume.

The ONLY book you need is blackrain79's CRUSHING THE MICROS from his main website. He is a dragthebar cash-game coach and has had some pretty sick winrates at 2nl-10nl.

try this=> https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=crushing the microstakes
 
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No need to buy any books. Everything you could possibly need is free online, not the books you have mentioned, but good quality articles and videos.

Poker is easy, period. In fact, at 10nl and below it is so easy that people overcomplicate it trying all these fancy things when in reality all that is needed is consistency of the fundamentals and patience/volume.

The ONLY book you need is blackrain79's CRUSHING THE MICROS from his main website. He is a dragthebar cash-game coach and has had some pretty sick winrates at 2nl-10nl.

You guys think i am overcomplicating? I thought that overstudying was bad too, but then all the successful people in poker i met studied a lot, so i thought studying was the best thing you could do. Still in doubt anyway

Danjwarburton, you think blackrain's book cover all the fundamentals? I heard talking a lot here, but looking just at the website i would never buy it. It seems one of that 'become rich in 10 days' books. But you guys talk as is one of the best around. How do you compare with the one i choosed for the fundamentals, Harrington's one?
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Its a great attitude to have, I would say just watch some vids (ideally watch each one a few times) and learn to apply the basics. No need to read 10+ books to beat the micros, you will just end up trying to take in too much, most of which will not be necessary.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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You guys think i am overcomplicating? I thought that overstudying was bad too, but then all the successful people in poker i met studied a lot, so i thought studying was the best thing you could do. Still in doubt anyway

Danjwarburton, you think blackrain's book cover all the fundamentals? I heard talking a lot here, but looking just at the website i would never buy it. It seems one of that 'become rich in 10 days' books. But you guys talk as is one of the best around. How do you compare with the one i choosed for the fundamentals, Harrington's one?

It isn't a get rich in 10 days but it is a play by play in essance of fundamentals that should get you well on your way, if diciplined, to beat 2 & 5 NL. It contains a lot of the basics and points in the right direction so you can sit down and get in some volume and experience which is of great importance as well because it will give you data to analyze (if you plan to use pt4 or hm2) and be able to see where you are weak vs strong in your game and then you could research further on how to improve leaks and dig further to learn how to plug them and eventually move up.

Just my thought, it was/is a great book to get you on the right track IMO.... although many of them are I think it can get you on the tables and doing well at the micro's much quicker.

Good Luck.
 
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No need to buy any books. Everything you could possibly need is free online, not the books you have mentioned, but good quality articles and videos.

I agree haha. It's almost the year 2015. There are PLENTY of internet articles, poker forums, and etc. to get your poker study needs.

I have tried reading a couple of the old poker books and I couldn't take it. I understood some of what the books were saying, but it just felt so dry & and dragged out for me to bother reading the whole book.

The beauty of "googling" and researching you can find exactly what you need in seconds. Combination of playing hands, reviewing hands, watching others play hands (both bad players & good to see mistakes/good moves), and studying all the poker information provided online.

There's a vast online library available to the point where buying books shouldn't be your only option to study.
 
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You mentioned you don't seem to have enough time at the table to put what you've read into practise (< or something along those lines).
If so, I'd say you're reading too much.

Books are great. Studying is almost mandatory. But you need to play a bunch. And don't consider wasting time on play money.

Play.
Post some hands on the forum for analysis.
Play.
Read some articles/book/watch videos
Play
Post some hands & read other's hands that are posted.

.... & so on ... & so on ...
 
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stefanorb

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I agree haha. It's almost the year 2015. There are PLENTY of internet articles, poker forums, and etc. to get your poker study needs.

There's a vast online library available to the point where buying books shouldn't be your only option to study.

Its a great attitude to have, I would say just watch some vids (ideally watch each one a few times) and learn to apply the basics. No need to read 10+ books to beat the micros, you will just end up trying to take in too much, most of which will not be necessary.


Some good examples of internet resource guys? i like the idea of watch something on pc when i dont have wish to open a book
 
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