Outplaying TAG C-betters

akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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So at 5NL (6max) where im currently at, its basically made up of TAGs and fish, I basically never encounter good LAG players. TAGs are said to be prone to counter aggression, and if the control of the hand is taken from them, they are pushed out of their comfort zone.

At the moment id say im still a TAG player, but eventually I want to become a LAG. So today I just had a session where I made the point of applying more counter aggression, particularly on C-bets.

When in position it was remarkably easy to pick up pots, simply by putting in a re-raise after a C-bet, when completely missing the flop. Typical play I encounter goes a bit like this:

Someone will raise to 15c, 1 or 2 callers, 3-4 folds. Pot size will = 30-45

Pre-flop raiser will C-bet 20-30. Nearly always 1 fold, then if the C-bet is called, 2 will progress to heads up on the turn.

So today, after the C-bet of 20-30, if I was in position id make it something like 65-95 and id take down the pot nearly every single time. On the very few times I did fail to get them to fold, Id just shut down and fold after the turn, no big deal, they obviously had a hand.

I just felt I needed to make this thread because of how successful re-raising the TAGs who C-bet was, it was like taking candy from a baby. Some of you should maybe give it a shot if you don't already.

So I guess id just like some information and tips of when to conduct this play. Obviously position is a must, what type of boards does this work best? What players should this be used on more than others? How many times can I get away with doing it, without people clicking onto what im doing? Is this only very effective because im at micro-stakes?

Thanks in advance guys :D
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

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I've been doing basically the same Robbo, and yes, works great.

Not that I'm anyone to give advice, but here's something I've learned.

I make sure to change up play every once in a while and let them get me off a small raise, in various positions. (Probably common poker knowledge I'd say, but worth saying still)

As I type this, I'm at a table .01/.02 with a couple of live fishes with healthy wallets. In 44 hands, I'm up 175 bbs. Yes, that number is right, up $3.50 +. I love tables like this.
 
Arjonius

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Players who cbet more often will tend to have hit the flop less often or not as hard, so it's usually easier to fold them out.

It can also make a difference how the flop fits with your range vs the opponent's, but this only matters if you think he is aware of what your likely range is and able to adapt accordingly.
 
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Tiltt2424

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I think its a very useful raise in position on a player who c bets nearly every board or especially if the board is very dry because it will look like you have an overpair or set and you really like that type of board. Identifying TAGs who have a price on single pair hands will definitely be likely to fold better holdings simply because they don't feel comfortable with an inflating pot.
 
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RUNRRUNRTO

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This is an interesting topic. My tendencies tend to be TAG though I've been known to switch it up according to the table I'm at. 3-betting in position is a very common & effective move at the micro stakes level. Tougher, more observant players will catch on though and start to play back at you. C-betting often can become a leak in ones game and you''re one of the many smart players who exploit that. An observant player who has a hightcbet flop rate will catch on and if he/she is any good may begin to call your raises while continuing to lead out on the turn (to see what you do and/or may have a hand) at that point if you have complete air I'd say abort. Another strategy, he/she may 4 bet you on the flop, what would you do then assuming you have air? This is a good post and I enjoy reading it. Thank you for sharing.
 
el_magiciann

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I think you didnt actually re raised CB when flop comes AK8 or sth, right? And something more your play is good if you feel comfortable with it, but do you make good profit at all, because if your re raise didnt work you lose much more than when your re raise works.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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Another strategy, he/she may 4 bet you on the flop, what would you do then assuming you have air? This is a good post and I enjoy reading it. Thank you for sharing.

Firstly thanks for your reply, im glad you took interest in it :)

At this stage im pretty much always folding to 4-bets OTF. Not saying that at 5NL players dont have the capacity to play tricky back at me without the nuts in this situation, but more often than not I feel the correct decision is to let them have it as they most likely have the nuts.

Even if they call my 3-bet, I know im probably way behind so I usually wont barrel on the turn, unless I have a read and they check it to me ill hit them with another barrel to know where im at.

4-bets almost always dont happen though, most of the time I get folds, sometimes they will call me and on the odd occasion they will shove.

Im really enjoying this play though and its winning me money in situations where before I was losing money by folding to too many c-bets and not being aggressive enough.
 
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