Optimal Strategy vs the MSS in Full-Ring

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RiverOrBalls

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Hi guys,

My question today is quite straightforward:

What is the best way to play vs the MSS. NL10 full ring on 888 poker seems to be infested with the buggers who all run approximately 14/14/7 af13.

Obviously when they 3x it in AP I do have correct odds to set mine for what is presumably their stack (assuming they hold a middle pair+ or hit the flop in any significant way), but where I seem to be struggling is how to profitably play my broadway ranges vs them. Presumably I should be looking to GII if I am +EV vs their 3b range (when i hold AKs, JJ+?), but what happens when I hold dominated Broadway's such as AQ, KQ, AJ etc? And is it a case of fit/fold on the flop as fold equity seems to be notably lower vs these players than the deep stackers among us, therefore check/raise as bluff on the flop is showing a -EV?

Thanks for any clarity you might be able to add.

Best wishes grinding!
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Try and read up on dominated hands. You don't want to play these hands out of position or they'll just cost you money most the time.

You need to understand also that with these dominated hands that a pair can be a bankroll killer... You want at least 2p min before thinking you can own with resistance but even then extreme caution is needed.

Use your hud..... If you miss the flop see who ur opponent is, does he fold easily?... Always analyse ur opponent and then check ur cards.
 
OldschoolSteinhausen

OldschoolSteinhausen

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Gosh, has it been so long that I'm behind on the lexicon....Whats an MSS?
 
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RiverOrBalls

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MSS= mid stack strategy- the guys who buy in for 40-50bb. They always raise big enough to make set mining incredibly difficult, and get exceptionally aggro with any top pair plus hand. They are also shallow enough that I get in trouble by justifying my own tptk call of their shove based on the depth of their stack, not the relative strength of my hand vs their range.

Can anyone link me to any useful resource that explains what ranges/ hand strengths the average MSS stacks off with? How much of their range consists of bluffs etc? Maybe if I knew this info I could work out +EV calling ranges vs their aggression?

Thanks for the responses
 
OldschoolSteinhausen

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ahhh, ok, actually I do know alot about that. I bought YourDooms midstack strategy course. Ok so....

1. 3x preflop raise size is not optimal for their stack size. They should be 2.1x -2.5x based on position

2. Their opening range makes a huge difference as to whats optimal to get it in. As an example is someone opens 2.1x with a 40bb stack, it is plus ev to shove over the with AQ and JJ+. It would probably be more ev not to shove those hands, but make a 3 bet to about 5.5 bbs. I think once they open 24% ish of hands, its +ev to shove any sooted ace, pp, and sooted broadway. But, once again its probalby better to just make a small 3 bet.

When you have AA, KK, almost never 3 bet them, flat them preflop, and then wait for a flop to raise.

I could go on, but I think that will get you in the right direction
 
LD1977

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Or, 3bet them like a maniac, they hate that crap :D most of their raising range is "fold to 3bet" in their tables, especially from LP and they are utterly unable to adjust since, you know, they are robots.

Also, it is laughably easy to stack them like every single time you are ahead, they are implied odds machines even with their stack sizes.

Best way to see their deficiencies is to play MSS yourself for 2 weeks. You will either win or learn how to cream them.
 
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fletchdad

fletchdad

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Hi guys,

My question today is quite straightforward:

What is the best way to play vs the MSS. NL10 full ring on 888 poker seems to be infested with the buggers who all run approximately 14/14/7 af13.

Obviously when they 3x it in AP I do have correct odds to set mine for what is presumably their stack (assuming they hold a middle pair+ or hit the flop in any significant way), but where I seem to be struggling is how to profitably play my broadway ranges vs them. Presumably I should be looking to GII if I am +EV vs their 3b range (when i hold AKs, JJ+?), but what happens when I hold dominated Broadway's such as AQ, KQ, AJ etc? And is it a case of fit/fold on the flop as fold equity seems to be notably lower vs these players than the deep stackers among us, therefore check/raise as bluff on the flop is showing a -EV?

Thanks for any clarity you might be able to add.

Best wishes grinding!

I play 888 10-30nl, but 6 max. I find it strange that you have so many 14/14/7, (I am interpreting this to be VPIP/PFR/3B???). I never see this tyope of player at 6 max in 888, even in my shots at 50 and 100nl. OC, I am speaking 6 max.

And AF13? Lots of them you say??

I have MANY players who have stats like (VPIP-PFR) 67/3 - 88/65 - and a lot of other totally bizarre stats ..... seriously. Is there such a big difference in the micro 6 max vs. FR games???

I am also assuming you play 100BB tables with MS yourself.

Which, BTW, I also dont get........ I hate not having at least 100 BB
 
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