Opinions on Blackrains strategy

youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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What do people think on playing the micros with strategies like open limping small PP's or 4-8x open raising with strong hands? Obviously it works well for Blackrain but it seems a little seethrough.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Only if your opponents are paying attention and, at the limits he's talking about, they're not.
 
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wagnert

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I agree with wvhillbilly. At that level, people normally don't pay attention to betting patterns. That is why that strategy is profitable. At higher stakes, it would never work.
 
acky100

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I personally would raise any pair at these limits where the opposition are all brain dead and i know for a fact it'd be profitable, limping them works also im sure, but i for sure would not be doing it at 10nl or higher if i did do it at all (which i wouldnt) it'd be at 2nl and maybe 5nl, Its funny how many bad regs try doing it at limits higher limits, where its definitely costing them a lot
 
WVHillbilly

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I personally would raise any pair at these limits where the opposition are all brain dead and i know for a fact it'd be profitable, limping them works also im sure, but i for sure would not be doing it at 10nl or higher if i did do it at all (which i wouldnt) it'd be at 2nl and maybe 5nl, Its funny how many bad regs try doing it at limits higher limits, where its definitely costing them a lot
Oh yeah, I don't recommend open limping, but at 2nl/5nl you can certainly get by with it.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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Oh yeah, I don't recommend open limping, but at 2nl/5nl you can certainly get by with it.

Yep this is my thinking but there must be a reason why his winrates are so good. Maybe open limping is better at these limits. I dont think it makes a huge difference EV wise though.
 
WVHillbilly

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Yep this is my thinking but there must be a reason why his winrates are so good. Maybe open limping is better at these limits. I dont think it makes a huge difference EV wise though.
I doubt the difference in EV between limping small pairs or open raising them at micro limits is very much. Nathan's winrate is so good because he focuses on maximizing value with his big hands both pre and post flop.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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I guess he just plays massively into human psychology. Out of curiosity do you know if he still grinds the micros or has moved up?
 
WVHillbilly

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No idea. He'll likely see this thread and respond at some point though.
 
acky100

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Yep this is my thinking but there must be a reason why his winrates are so good. Maybe open limping is better at these limits. I dont think it makes a huge difference EV wise though.

He seems like a good guy and all and will most likely read this for sure, without knocking the guy at all, the reason his winrates are high, is not because of any little things he's found work like limping small pp's, its simply because he is playing limits he should of moved away from long long ago :) But the EV of staying there and making one of the most popular books for the micros should not be forgot. Learn to get value with your big hands and have a pretty decent preflop game and you should have a comparable WR also.
 
Nathan Williams

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I am probably going to just edit that tiny section out of the book at some point to be honest as it has been the source of much controversy and distortion lol. The advice given (to limp 22-66) applied to EP only. It also only applied to the deep stacked NL2 and NL5 games on Stars. I also mentioned that raising or even folding these hands would be perfectly fine actions to take as well. I have looked over my winrates with these hands from these positions and in these games over enormous samples and have not been able to identify a discernable difference no matter which of the three actions that I take.

Regarding my overall strategy and especially the sometimes ridiculous plays that I suggest for these stakes. No, as mentioned they are not overly applicable at higher stakes as I discuss in the book. They are useful versus the often brain dead opponents that you will encounter at the lowest limits online or live. One of the biggest reasons that my winrates have been so high in these games has been because I do not always use so called "standard" bet sizes or lines versus opponents like this. Poker is a game of adjustments. There is no standard play for any situation.

Regarding my current play. I play anywhere at the micros on any given day NL2-NL50 because these are the stakes that I teach, have written a book about and blog about. However, I tend to play more at the upper end of those stakes these days although with less mass tabling and more shorthanded play.
 
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youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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Thanks for the response, yeah I spent last night reading through it all. It sounds very helpful so hopefully I can incorporate as much of it as possible.

At the micros is 6 max or FR more profitable in your opinion and with your playing style. I would have thought isolating massive fish is easier at 6 max and I have just got comfortable at 6 max.
 
Nathan Williams

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I have looked at the long term best winrates for a variety of stakes on PTR before 6max and FR and haven't been able to see any real difference. In HU you can definitely achieve a much higher winrate but you obviously can't put in anywhere near the volume. So you should just play whichever one you find more enjoyable.
 
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