Originally Posted by camtheram13
Lately I've been doing more observing on the poker sites than playing... Lol not by choice but always learning is good
I've noticed a lot of Omaha Hi players coin flip trips vs A high flush on the flop. It can go either way. I've seen the flush draw push all-in first and the other way around.
Is this proper play???
I feel like calling all-in with trips on the flop is kind of reckless because unless the board pairs or you hit quads, that is your best hand. The A high flush seems like only a good idea if you have another way out like A high flush and two pair. Thoughts?
Uh... Depends on the trips and the opponent... and the other 3 cards in your hand among other things.
Also you say vs an "Ace high flush"... if that's ALL your opponent (or you) has you shouldn't be aggressively stacking that off pretty much ever... A bare flush draw (even the BNFD) is not a good hand in omaha, and it's significantly less good on a paired board.
Here's an example of the above situation:
Hand Equity Wins Ties 7h9hTcQs 76.95% 631 0 Ad2d4h5c 23.05% 189 0
The trips are massive favorites over the BNFD.
However, draws in Omaha run way way WAY bigger than a measely flush draw. If you have a pair the NFD for example... here's how the equity changes.
Hand Equity Wins Ties 7h9hTcJs 70.73% 580 0 AsQcTs4h 29.27% 240 0
Note: In this specific example, the trips also have an extra 4 out gutshot straight draw... let's take that away
Hand Equity Wins Ties 7h8hTc5d 68.17% 559 0 AsKcTs4h 31.83% 261 0
Edit · Link
· 2+2 · Deuces Cracked
OK, not a huge difference but still a difference.
Now, the above draws absolutely blow in PLO... let's take a look at an example of trips vs a decent draw.
Hand Equity Wins Ties 7h8h4d5d 61.83% 507 0 AsQsJd9h 38.17% 313 0
Edit · Link (http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=8d8sTs&g=oh&h1=7h8h4d5d&h2=AsQsJd9h) · 2+2 · Deuces Cracked
Better.... but we are still well behind with the draw... here btw we have a NFD (6 outs btw, not 9 since the 4s, 7s and 5s make boats for the trips) and a straight wrap... but again not all the outs are clean... the clean outs are 2 nines and 2 queens. again, the remaining 2 7s boat up the opponent and we already counted the spades for the flush draw. Lesson here, do not overcount your outs and always consider that many of them may not be clean. This is double true since on any paired board where you have a straight draw and your opponenet has trips, generally speaking you should expect your opponents other cards to be near the card that tripped up...which means most of the time your straight outs are compromised. If you are playing someone who routinely plays hands that hit this board for trips, but the others cards are scattered... do not leave the table till he is broke, cause it will happen sooner rather than later.
Blah blah... I could go on and on..but are you starting to get the pictures?
paired boards = very very bad for straight and flush draws cause if you get a ton of action, you are rarely in good shape.
Note: None of the above takes into account the very non-insignificant possibility you are drawing absolutely dead to T8xx, 88xx or TTxx.
Now, having said all this... omaha is very much a drawing game... but know what your draws are. Forget hold em, this isn't hold em.. Or to put it in simpler terms: *ahem* IF ALL YOU HAVE IS A DRAW YOU CAN GET IN HOLD EM, DO NOT STACK OFF WITH IT*. PERIOD.
(* - in a heads up pot)
Now...exercise for the day. How many outs do you have here?
Your hand: AdQdJsTs
What is your equity do you think vs someone with 99xx?