Omaha 8 - no point bluffing???

Hi all.

I`m well into O8 and I have just stepped up limits - playing $3/$6 FL.

I think I`m lucky that I have a big bankroll, but it won`t be big for long if I don`t stop trying to bluff.

An example, have not got hand history.

I am in position, with say A352. Last to act, one limper so I raise. He calls my raise. (limit game)

Flop Kd4d7h he checks, I bet, he calls. Then Qs check/ bet/ call. then 9c.

I know now I could be up against a straight, but by betting, IMO, if he reraises then I know I`m beat, if he folds, I have shown the strength from the start - u guys know what I mean.

Check, then I bet, he calls with pair 4`s if he bets here I fold.

Now I know people play there own way, and I`m possibly naive, but he did not have a flush draw, did not have nut lo (He had 2,4,10,8 rainbow) not straight possibilities, etc.

Now, to move on, it seems like when I try to make this same play it is rare anyone will put down any pair.

So, it got me thinking, is there any point in bluffing in O8?

I will now and then, but it seems impossible to get ppl to fold.

It is possible that what is anoying me is the fact that they are calling raises with hands I would never be in a pot with in the first place and hands I would not even call one bet on the end - especially when OOP.

Have they got the odds to call - even if he thought I was chasing the low to call with bottom pair

What are your thoughts???

BTW, I am well ahead playing O8, this is just a recuring theme for me, at least it seems so

I have found that people bluff too often in any game, lots of people call weak cause they believe every bet is a bluff. Also in limit games of any kind it's hard to bluff since it's limit.

Put those two together and add the fact that in Omaha everyone plays way too many hands to begin with. I mean how many times do u see betting capped preflop with 4 or 5 players seiing the flop.

Plus people love to chase in Omaha so it's hard to get someone out with weak hands.

So I would just try to value bet more and bluff less.

Ronaldadio said:

I am in position, with say A352. Last to act, one limper so I raise. He calls my raise. (limit game)

Flop Kd4d7h he checks, I bet, he calls. Then Qs check/ bet/ call. then 9c.

I know now I could be up against a straight, but by betting, IMO, if he reraises then I know I`m beat, if he folds, I have shown the strength from the start - u guys know what I mean.

Check, then I bet, he calls with pair 4`s if he bets here I fold.

Now I know people play there own way, and I`m possibly naive, but he did not have a flush draw, did not have nut lo (He had 2,4,10,8 rainbow) not straight possibilities, etc.

Now, to move on, it seems like when I try to make this same play it is rare anyone will put down any pair.

So, it got me thinking, is there any point in bluffing in O8?

I will now and then, but it seems impossible to get ppl to fold.

Have they got the odds to call - even if he thought I was chasing the low to call with bottom pair

What are your thoughts???

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Shortened you post to address the pertinent points. You only give 1 example but I have certainly not found this to be true. I don't play those stakes, but I might start if you give me this person's name. You were unlucky enough to not hit anything better than 44, which is sadly unlikely. In the longrun, you'll make a mint off this guy, or people like him. Guess bottom line, is to know your opponent.

But he might have picked up on your low draw for 1/2 the pot, especially after raising the K74 (dry) flop. And possibly figured you had 3 low cards, and not the 4. Hard to say, but he didn't raise, only called. Possibly if the flop was all high (AKJ), he would have folded. I know, the K or even 7 should have been enough. He's still an idiot, but....you're right, limit can be an asset when you've good 'decent' goods, but you've always got to remember that some idiot might call with junk if you got nothin'.

I bluff all the time. Pick flop textures like 9T2 or something where people just aren't likely to have anything. But yeah, you certainly can't bluff as much as you can in hold'em, but bluffing has its place in every game.

maybe you should try bet/check/bet with players like this, with fixed limits dude probably thinks he has odds to call to at least look at what your hand was, just to see what you would fire 3 shells with.

That turn check will save you some big bets and and that one big bet you save will add up in the long run. Plus, villain will often bet on the river in front of you when he has you beat/has a hand he is willing to call a raise with, and you can get away from this hand pretty cheaply when he does bet infront of you, because this is a situation when you have nothing. Yeah the villain may bluff you but when you have nothing anyway it doesn't really matter. Villain can't really bluff you in fixed limit on that river anyway when you have a hand.

I'd just switch to the b/c/b with those type of players, if your b/b/b line is working against certain other players obviously you miswell maintain that. But as long as your betting the turn against that villain you'll never know if he'll call the river or not, so your better off checking the turn and seeing if he checks it to you on the river, than I'd bet without question, point you save one big bet.

At the same time, I don't think there is any real problem with the way you played that, you had a great hand preflop and put non stop pressure on your opponent, and as long as your playing all your hands like that you are going to get him to pay you more often than not and evoke some folds along the way too, if no ones believing you maybe try to showdown the goods. You said your well off though as far as the game so I don't think you need to change much, but if your working with calling stations I say b/c/b or b/c/f when you have completely whiffed.

....I'll tell you one things for sure, two things for certain, bluffing is definitely a hell of a lot easier in PLO hi

I think hova nailed it pretty well.
Sure, you can bluff in Omaha, but it's very difficult in a Limit game.
Many assume, right or wrong, that they always have the pot odds to see it to the end.
Checking the turn was a great suggestion. I'm going to be awake for that from now on.

t1tpfdc said:

I think hova nailed it pretty well.
Sure, you can bluff in Omaha, but it's very difficult in a Limit game.
Many assume, right or wrong, that they always have the pot odds to see it to the end.
Checking the turn was a great suggestion. I'm going to be awake for that from now on.

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I think so too, excellent post. Check on the turn, hope you hit your low, then see if opponent comes out swinging after the river. You'll have saved yourself at least 1 bet.

Also can appreciate the comment "with fixed limits dude probably thinks he has odds to call to at least look at what your hand was, just to see what you would fire 3 shells with". :laugh: And by the same token, I also agree that Ronald did not play the hand badly, as now he knows what his opponent will call 3 shells with. But I probably wouldn't have kept betting in a MTT, where you can 1) get moved around (so your opponeny knowledge is no longer valuable) 2) not afford to bleed your stack. But in a ring game, it might be an investment. Too rich for my blood to call w/junk, but $ is all relative.

I play limit 08 quite a bit, but prefer PL. Also a ton of stud hi lo. Bluffing in PL is similar to HE, in that stack size comes into play... in limit, I dont start bluffing until I have a good read on the players, and my table image and position are right. O8 limit is the least bluffable game, but it can be done, but all the factors must be right. Generally, people will call you down because there are so many draws, so all factors have to be right and I need a really good read on the table before trying it. Unknown table or players, I won't bluff much at all.

Some excellent points guy, ty.

The example I gave was an extreme example, but I`m sure u guys understand.

I think I will use a mix of what hova said and snake.

Basically, I`ll bet less when I have zero lol

There is no bluffing in PLO8.

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ad 7c 2c 10s]
FLPHISH - Folds
DOBEDAD - Calls $0.10
DANBACH01 - Calls $0.10
FELTONZAP - Raises $0.30 to $0.30
Hero - Calls $0.30
WHALEBUSTER - Folds
JOEYTAY - Calls $0.20
DOBEDAD - Calls $0.20
DANBACH01 - Calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [Js 6h Jh]
JOEYTAY - Checks
DOBEDAD - Checks
DANBACH01 - Bets $0.20
FELTONZAP - Folds
Hero - Raises $2.15 to $2.15
JOEYTAY - Folds
DOBEDAD - Folds
DANBACH01 - Folds
Hero - returned ($1.95) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero - Does not show
Hero Collects $1.86 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($1.95) | Rake ($0.09)

c9h13no3 said:

There is no bluffing in PLO8.

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ad 7c 2c 10s]
FLPHISH - Folds
DOBEDAD - Calls $0.10
DANBACH01 - Calls $0.10
FELTONZAP - Raises $0.30 to $0.30
Hero - Calls $0.30
WHALEBUSTER - Folds
JOEYTAY - Calls $0.20
DOBEDAD - Calls $0.20
DANBACH01 - Calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [Js 6h Jh]
JOEYTAY - Checks
DOBEDAD - Checks
DANBACH01 - Bets $0.20
FELTONZAP - Folds
Hero - Raises $2.15 to $2.15
JOEYTAY - Folds
DOBEDAD - Folds
DANBACH01 - Folds
Hero - returned ($1.95) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero - Does not show
Hero Collects $1.86 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($1.95) | Rake ($0.09)

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Small stakes. I think at this level a lot of people are looking at what they have and are completly oblivious to what others have.