Nut flush draw in 3-bet pot with two all-ins ahead of you

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CactusCat

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This is a spot I've been wondering about since it comes up on occasion. The exact details of the hand don't matter, but say UTG raises, and almost everyone calls. You call with A9 of hearts from the cutoff since it looks like a nice family pot is building, the button + the blinds all call.

Two hearts come on a Jack-high flop, UTG open-shoves, fold, call from MP, then folds to you. Alternatively, UTG c-bets big enough you know he has an overpair and is going to jam if reraised, and MP does in fact reraise. If you flat call, UTG will shove, MP will call, and you will be priced in to calling as well. Same thing if you come over the top. You have no guarantee if the button or blinds will call.

Mathematically, I know the call is correct even if they both have monsters. With ~35% equity I need two other players to be all in order to make this a slightly profitable call.

With 3 players all in, I would force myself to call, but I usually end up folding because I haven't invested too much in the pot.

To get to the point, my question is: How much do you play according to objective math? Do you call in this spot with the naked nut flush draw?
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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It is tough to say because we have to take a few things into consideration before making this decision.

We have to see if this is a cash game or a tournament as we can afford to take more risks in a cash game. We also have to look at stack sizes of all the players in the hand.

Most of the times i will lay this hand down as we only have a draw and if someone else has a flush draw we have even less outs to make our flush. Since two players are all in it is a possibility that one of them has a set or a flush draw.
So most times i will fold this but sometimes in a cash game i don't mind taking a risk especially when we have a short stack.:)
 
Four Dogs

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I think the only time I don't call this is at the final table of a tournament where I stand to gain more from seeing a bust out than being a bust out.
 
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bojax

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I'd need a good read that the bettors always have a set here to fold. If he's bad enough to shove $100 into a pot of $12, then he's probably bad enough to have top pair when he does it.
 
TheGodson

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I think you should call. You know it is going 3-way all-in. If either of the other two have a flush draw yours will be dominating their's increasing your chances of winning significantly. If neither has a flush draw then one of their hands will be dominating the other. Someone in the hand will be dominated and it isn't going to be you. So call.
 
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I agree with Four Dogs completely. The only time I am laying this down is in a tourney where the payouts jump substantially - never in a cash game unless I am deep stacked over 200 bb's and one of the other players has close to the same stack as me. In the examples you cited it is possible for players to have KK QQ and justifiably try to protect their hands so your ace is sometimes good although I realize many times not - but I am willing to gamble with nut flush draw
 
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cyclone45

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Ah, but is your nut flush draw on the flop, or the turn? On the turn, I'd fold, with only one shot at a 9 outer rather than 2
 
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Obviously talking about on the flop - no one is calling all in on the turn I hope - should be willing to shove all in on flop over the top of one opponents raise also - this is where big pots are won and lost but so many times a skilled opponent can bet big enough on turn to force you off your hand so calling is really a bad option and I can't ever see folding, but a fold is better than a call in my opinion. In essence, calling a big bet on flop which isn't an all in you still are getting one street only to hit unless your opponent is very bad they are putting you on exactly what you have and shoving (in raised pots obv. sometimes in a limped pot their holdings may not be as strong and they will check on turn if you have position on them)
 
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