Notes on online Players?

Is this a good idea or is it a waste of my time?

If you arent using any type of software that does it for you, and gives you stats, I think its a valuable excersise. Especially with all the regulars.

I care more about taking notes on regulars. There's a lot of people that you're only going to see once, maybe twice. So taking notes on them, while helpful for the time you're playing, likely won't ever help you again.

When you have regulars, it's good to know what their tendencies are, as this enables you to better exploit them. When you take notes, be sure to date them, as players will improve over time, and if the note is from 2 years ago, it may no longer apply. Elaborate as well; there is plenty of space for you, so use it.

Its hard to learn someone tendencies if you only run across then once or twice in a tournement room or table online. I would If you are taking note in this situation take notes on plays you see other player make and if you see something enough you will be better equiped to handle that same move in the future.

If you have the time to note why not do it? I note often when only playing one or two tables.

There's nothing wrong with taking notes about players, and there was a thread not too long ago here on CC that had some excellent advice about notetaking that you might search for. I've found that if you spend much time in the same level games on the same sites, you will see a lot of the same players over and over, and the notes might give you a little leg up on them if you have done a good job of keeping them.

A couple of days ago, I was moved to a new table and ran into a player that I had previously noted had a tendency to put out huge raises to try and steal pots, but would fold if re-raised. Sure enough, just like clockwork he did it twice, I raised both times, and he was quickly crippled. The notes can help!

I find it only neccessary when you are playing in a high stakes ring game, where you will see the same players for an hour straight. In tournament poker, you might only see the same person at your table for 15 minutes. Obviously there are exceptions, but those are what make sense to me.

puppyfeet said:

I've found that if you spend much time in the same level games on the same sites, you will see a lot of the same players over and over, and the notes might give you a little leg up on them if you have done a good job of keeping them.

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That pretty much sums it up for me. Also, if you're fond of a particular game other than NLHE, like Omaha HL or Razz, you'll be far more likely to run into the same people. There are few here that play a whole lot of Razz. That field at any almost level will be ralatively small. And I've seen a couple that have posted screenshots and lobbys, and there are notes on maybe half of them.

freerolls or low stakes NLHE at poker stars, it's probably pointless. But as Kwoff pointed out, if you have the time why not? If you color code them to mean different things, you don't even have to fill in the notes right away, if at all. Truth be told, I play a wide variety of games, and usually don't take notes unless someone really stands out in a certain way (i.e. donk, a-hole, clueless, hyper-aggressive, or just very good or nice & friendly). However, I think I should take notes more often.

personally i think its a waste of time because ur not playing in person aganist some1 u can only read their beating, most online players can change how they play all the time..

I think taking notes for online games are really valuable. It helps make up for not being able to see the people you're playing and getting reads on them.

stephenjr6 said:

personally i think its a waste of time because ur not playing in person aganist some1 u can only read their beating, most online players can change how they play all the time..

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That's not true. You can see what they were playing with any time they are called down to the river or if they have an AI opponent outstacked, not just when they are AI themselves. If anything, not being able to see them in person is all the more reason that you should collect any info that MIGHT (not will, MIGHT) help you in the future.

And yes, players do change and they do get better, which is why I date the info that I put in notes.

BTW, how can it be a "waste of time?" What does it take, a few seconds to click and type in a few abbreviations? Unless you're in on every single hand like a donk, don't you have a few extra seconds that you could try to squeeze a note in?

Poker is such a complex game, every little bit helps, right?

I like the idea of dating your notes. This is something I haven't been doing and never thought of, but will start doing (so thanks Mase!). The notes can be quite informative, especially if you see a note that you took recently about betting patterns being replicated again. Also, in my mind, I think that taking notes as part of learning poker. If I don't pay attention to the play online, I might run into trouble when I'm up against players in a live game where hands progress at a slower rate.

Edit: does anyone have any good suggestions for color coding?

This is never a bad idea or a waste of your time, but you have to remember that at any given time there are 10,000 + players on one site at one time. This means that note taking is useful, however, you have a lot of people to cover, and it might take you a long while to even get half of them done.

I would say that when you notice something......take notes, take notes, take notes, and take notes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its 'almost' pointless for freerolls, but if you play $5+ SNG's or private tournies alot it can be 'extremely' useful. Another thing that is useful is something like poker tracker which gives you even more information then you could possibly remember yourself.

color tags

ryodejaneiro said:

Edit: does anyone have any good suggestions for color coding?

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Since I'm tagging opponents since I started I can only say it helps a ton.
(basically as said before)
My color tags are:
red - maniac/all in pf donk
pink - very weak fish
green - friend
yellow - dangerous
orange - dangerous + aggressive
blue- tight
light blue - tight-passive
ultraviolet - tight-aggressive

I think taking notes is a good idea when you will play with the same players often like the higher stakes games or private tournaments, i myself am too lazy to take notes but when ever i play in private freerolls like the CC freerolls, i use holdem indicator (it's free for play money games and freerolls) its a holdem calculator that also picks up player stats, and also clasifies everyone from a calling station to a good player after 40 hands.

I have tried creating a template for this very thing. I find myself playing a few of the same people over and over again. However since I use a HUD I already have the stats, but I don't have betting patterns.

Position:

• I want to make sure that I am noting the exact position from which they are acting -- Looser play usually comes from the Button or late and I have ranges to put them on as a result, but my ranges for each position gets tighter as I get closer (Button, Button +1, Button +2, and ect.)

Range:

• + (I place an X for each hand they play with-in my expected range for that position and keep the X's as a tally of how many times they did it from that position)
• - (I place an X for each hand they play outside of my expected range and keep the X's as a tally of how many times they did it from that position)

Speed of Bet

• Auto Button or just quick -- If they place their bet in a quick or Auto response I place a Q
• Casual -- If they Place their bet in a casual or 1 to 2 seconds time frame I place a C
• Slow -- If they take more than 2 seconds to place their action then I place a S
• Deliberate -- I reserve this for someone that I think made the slower action as a deliberate show of thinking (Usually when they have the nuts or open draw but only if they are the ones that open or over bet) I will place a D

Raise or check:

• Check -- If they Check then I place a CK
• Call -- If they call a raise then I place CL
• Open -- If they Open the street then I place a O
• Raise -- If they Raise then I place a R
• re-raise -- If they Re-Raise or 3 Bet i place a RR

Amount:

• The amount that was put in on that street by this player noted in numbers 123 (if I notice the bet is pot I or half I also not this by placing the numbers then P or HP)

Hand result:

• Chase Straight -- If I happen to see them placing bets or calling bets and they were simply trying to catch the Straight, I will place an X next to the Chased Strt option and keep the X's as a tally of how many times they did it from that position
• Chase Flush -- If I happen to see them placing bets or calling bets and they were simply trying to catch the Straight, I will place an X next to the Chased Flsh option and keep the X's as a tally of how many times they did it from that position
• (StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air ) - I Happen to see the hand they played, then I will place the Actual hand shown (ATo or 72s) next to the abbreviation

********OTHER NOTES********

• This is where I will place any other notes that I may have picked up on from my opponent. Be sure not to let your emotions clutter this field. If you happen to catch your opponent playing like a newb, and he sucks out on you.....don't put things like DONKY DONK --sucked out on me 2 times. This will only pull up an emotion in your mind and you could be on tilt just from reading the note.

My Template for this is:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

XDATEX XTABLEXSTAKESX
Hands seen from
**Button (Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+1 (Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+2(Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+3(Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+4(Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+5(Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+6(Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
**+7 (Range +/- )**
(StrtFlsh /Qds / FlHs /Flsh /Strt /Trp /2Pr /1Pr /HC /Air )
(Chased Strt /Chased Flsh )
********OTHER NOTES********

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sometimes, I am not able to get all the notes that I would like to get on each hand, but the ones that I do get are pretty nice to have as I can view them with a quick glance. Additionally, once you start taking the notes, and try to make that process a regular discipline,(even if you are not playing the hand) you will notice that you are picking up on specific patterns very quickly. Thus giving you the best edge overall. Everyone takes notes differently, but taking notes is a sign that you are ready to pay attention to the betting patterns and you will be able to adjust your own game as a result.

Emrald Onyxx said:

Sometimes, I am not able to get all the notes that I would like to get on each hand, but the ones that I do get are pretty nice to have as I can view them with a quick glance.

Everyone takes notes differently, but taking notes is a sign that you are ready to pay attention to the betting patterns and you will be able to adjust your own game as a result.

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Not able to get notes every hand? You mean everyone in it too? Are some really more straight than flush oriented, and your notes will tip you off to that? And don't you think often someone's play would be different based on other players at the tables, even in the same circumstances hand- & position-wise?

I mean no disrespect, but I don't see how you can possibly do all this and pay attention to a single game. And feasable how would it be to quickly decipher the mountain of info when you'd be in a hand situation with that person (or 2!)? Where do you keep at the notes anyway? Ah, I still say you're joking.

Wow, Onyxx!! Do you take notes of their birthdays and the names of their kids and pets, too?

I keep some notes, but nowhere near as detailed as Onyxx. How could you possibly keep up? Not to mention when do you have time to reference them when you're in a hand with one of the players?

puppyfeet said:

Wow, Onyxx!! Do you take notes of their birthdays and the names of their kids and pets, too?

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Don't YOU ...

and here I thought you were serious about learning better poker. ...

To clean up my notes on you, I would be interested in whether you use 'FG' (FootGuard) or 'DX' (DeseneX) on your puppy-feet ..

U cannot see your opponents faces and you should always be observing your opponents. Information is extremely valuable to you, and as you get a feel for individual players, you should take your notes on them.
Detailed notes not only helps you pay attention to your game and your opponent's tendencies, but ensures that if you run into that player again, you will already have a step up on him.

Divebitch said:

Not able to get notes every hand? You mean everyone in it too?

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Maybe I forgot that part.........you will have to prioritize who you are going to place this effort on first. After that, notes can be simplified. Not every point will be able to be kept and certainly not for everyone at once. But the more I can remember, the better I get at placing a proper read on my opponents. The template means that you gain reminders of the points you want to look for. After practice you gain a rhythm of what to look for and how.

I usually start taking notes on the ones I have the most information on. Like I said, I have the use of a HUD for the stats. So I already keep a history of people that I have played before. Those are usually the ones I start with.

After that, I start watching table to find out who is the aggressor is and start noting him. I can note the others at the table as the action happens sometimes, but the table aggressor is the one that I am most likely to run into first. And sometimes that makes him my priority.

Divebitch said:

And don't you think often someone's play would be different based on other players at the tables, even in the same circumstances hand- & position-wise?

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This is exactly why I choose to start noting people that I have the most information on. Once you start taking notes you will be able to compare what you had then to what you have now.

I would never consider someone's notes as the solitary factor to making a move. But with notes, I have more information to consider when I have to make a decision in the current game. As a result of keeping notes, I now have a better indication of how to play that move with confidence because I currently know what the texture is. Also, convenient side effect of taking notes.

Divebitch said:

I mean no disrespect, but I don't see how you can possibly do all this and pay attention to a single game.

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Thank-you for mentioning this! I kind of left that part out. The Best part of all is
keeping notes means,

~YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION~

If there ever was 1 thing that someone can do better with taking notes........paying attention is it! I can, after many trails and practice, accurately keep notes with a better level of focus on the overall game in a simple-to-me rhythm.

Taking notes is something you have to be dedicated to. If you are going to take time to take notes, consider taking the time to create a template to start from first. Make a plan of what you are going to look for. Then make it easy for you to use, designed by yourself. I'm sure that once you start doing this on your own, you get to a point that you will begin to change the information you want to look for. Templates are easy to change. I just gave the template that I'm most comfortable with because of my own trials and practice in using it.

Personally my best notes come from the hands I sit out. I would just play at one table until you get your own template set-up. After you become more comfortable what notes you are going to take, you can simply set the template with copy/paste and then mark tally areas.

Divebitch said:

Where do you keep at the notes anyway?

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I play at FT and this template fits fine for me because of the way I use abbreviations and X tallies on my notes. Your own table settings could be smaller and more difficult for this template. But I'm sure you can find a place to store notes.

I also save my template on a separate word doc. Since I just copy the template I am able to simply paste (Ctrl+V) it into the notes area over and over. Then mark the appropriate areas of the template as I note.

puppyfeet said:

Wow, Onyxx!! Do you take notes of their birthdays and the names of their kids and pets, too?

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If you thought it would give you an edge.................why wouldn't you!?

im just starting out, and im finding taking notes to be a useful exercise. whether u ever come across the player in question or not, it helps hone ur game-observing skills...