Not winning enough on BTN or CO?

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eGomes2107

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I play FR 5 or 10NL

Am I winning enough from the BTN or CO?
 

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George Lewis

George Lewis

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My guess is no but regardless finding out how to make more is always a good idea. You should try to decide what it is you are or are not doing that will help. For example are you being too aggressive once in a hand or not aggressive enough..I am sure guys with more stats experience will have good advice for you but my opinion is that the button is where your highest profit numbers should be and if that is not true then you need to fix it.
 
TimovieMan

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Wait until you get 10x as many hands before you start looking for stuff in your stats. Less than 3K hands is far too little.

You appear a bit loose in the SB, and it's odd that you're looser in the CO than the BTN, but meh.

Overall your stats are a bit loose for full ring, though. You might want to cut some of your calling range out.
 
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seventhsense

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Are you limping from EP? Your VPIP is too high.

Anyway, like it has already been said, your sample size is tiny so it is impossible to say.
 
Dorugremon

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I play FR 5 or 10NL

Am I winning enough from the BTN or CO?

2,536 hands aren't really enough to tell. Normal variance could be in play here. That said, these stats indicate some potential problems that could point to bad habits.

Look at the stats where you're winning the most: these stats indicate a TAG style. For 5NL and 10NL, FR, TAG is right more often than not.

The stats for CO and BTN look very LAG-gy, perhaps even borderline aggrotard. It's always nice to have the BTN, but it's not a magic bullet by any means. This is especially true if your opponents have figured out that you're being somewhat of a maniac whenever you have the CO or BTN.

The way I play, I frequently overcall from these positions with speculative hands if the price isn't particularly steep, and stacks are sufficiently deep to make the speculation worth while. If it gets passed around to me, I steal raise with any reasonable hand (and a few unreasonable ones every now and then). I also make these steal raises 2XBB. If they'll fold for 2X, they'll fold for 3X, and if they call, it keeps c-bets cheap. If you flop good, you can build a pot later.

It also looks like you're defending from the SB way too much (this could be variance in operation, with an unusual frequency of good hands appearing in this ultimate OOP situation) and failing to defend the BB often enough (still could be variance). Defending the BB is better than defending the SB: you're getting a steeper discount, and you have the possibility of playing IP v. the SB.

The EP VPIP/PFR stats also look out of whack. In NLHE, it's either bring it in for a raise or fold. Open limping just has no place in NLHE (it's correct to open limp in FLHE) you're failing to realize your fold equity, and compounding that error by offering your opponents a good price to overcall to attempt to out flop you. Speculative hands need to be ditched in EP, and some hands that a lot of people would play from EP look better than they really are: the smaller Broadway cards, even if suited and connected, should be folded pre out of the #1 and #2 holes.
 
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chronical

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I would try to find how you mplay on CO,BU to aggro/to tight, maybe you play loose on UTG/MP, and fold QKs (or 3bet shove) to any standrt 3bb raise from EPs
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

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The stats for CO and BTN look very LAG-gy, perhaps even borderline aggrotard. It's always nice to have the BTN, but it's not a magic bullet by any means. This is especially true if your opponents have figured out that you're being somewhat of a maniac whenever you have the CO or BTN.
You're kidding, right? 30/20 from the BTN is more TAG than any of his other positional stats. If anything, he's not playing ENOUGH from the BTN and too much from the other positions.


I also make these steal raises 2XBB. If they'll fold for 2X, they'll fold for 3X, and if they call, it keeps c-bets cheap.
Dangerous assumption. My blind defense range is a LOT wider if you only steal for 2bb instead of 3bb, and so is my re-stealing range.

Open limping just has no place in NLHE (it's correct to open limp in FLHE)
Open-limping has no place in online 6-max NLHE and in most online full ring NLHE tables (unless you find an exceptionally passive one), but the same goes for FLHE.
Open-limping does have its place on passive live tables, though.




In any case, OP is limping / coldcalling far too many hands from early and middle position and especially the SB.

Since he mentions playing both 5 and 10 NL, the monetary results per position could be VERY out of whack with this small sample size. If the two biggest winning hands in EP, MP, SB and BB all happened on NL10 and the biggest losing hands on NL5, and vice versa for CO and BTN, then the monetary results can look like they do here, but still have a nice progressing bb/100 win rate.
And the sample size is so small that just plain variance can alter things greatly.
 
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seventhsense

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Exactly this ^

You want to play very wide from the button. I open any Ax, Kx and a bunch of Qx too depending on which players are in the blinds. If they are nits I'm opening wider.

Also steal sizing is true. I open for 2.5x from CO and button. This is just because I want villains to overcompensate and call lighter (which they do) so I can outplay them post-flop with the positional advantage.
 
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eGomes2107

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You're kidding, right? 30/20 from the BTN is more TAG than any of his other positional stats. If anything, he's not playing ENOUGH from the BTN and too much from the other positions.


Dangerous assumption. My blind defense range is a LOT wider if you only steal for 2bb instead of 3bb, and so is my re-stealing range.

Open-limping has no place in online 6-max NLHE and in most online full ring NLHE tables (unless you find an exceptionally passive one), but the same goes for FLHE.
Open-limping does have its place on passive live tables, though.




In any case, OP is limping / coldcalling far too many hands from early and middle position and especially the SB.

Since he mentions playing both 5 and 10 NL, the monetary results per position could be VERY out of whack with this small sample size. If the two biggest winning hands in EP, MP, SB and BB all happened on NL10 and the biggest losing hands on NL5, and vice versa for CO and BTN, then the monetary results can look like they do here, but still have a nice progressing bb/100 win rate.
And the sample size is so small that just plain variance can alter things greatly.

Thanks for your input. After reviewing my database it looks like I limp call from the SB too much and reviewing my hands My number should be around 10%.

What limp calling range from the SB do you guys use? if any at all
 
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ndnk

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With this small of a sample size it's not possible to say much at all. I mean for instance you have a higher VPIP from the CO than from the BTN which is presumably not a real representation of your strategy.
 
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joe777

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Players tendencies need to be taken into consideration also.2.5 to 3bb with Qx +,any pair and suited connector.
 
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