Nl to Limit change

I have stuck to playing NL when it comes to Hold em. However, I am going to start taking up Limit Hold em. What kind of changes should I get my-self assured with or is there not much of a difference in playing styles?

A big change is you can only bluff maybe 1/1000 hands and get away with it . But limit poker is all about semi bluffing pots so read up on semi bluffs

There is a huge difference playing limit holdem and no limit holdem. You should read some strategy and advice on limit and maybe buy a book before playing.

Limit poker is more of a math game. Brush up on your poker math if you do not feel comfortable making quick calculations.

I'd recommend picking up (or reading again) The Theory of Poker and Hold'em Poker for Advanced players, both by 2+2 publishing. If you're really new to the game, there's quite a few book that can get you started on the terminology and basic concepts, many of wich are reviewed in the Reviews section of the site. I think the Article page also has some texts that are quite succinct and that will give you pointers to start.

It pretty much is a very different game, since many of the key concepts in NL aren't available or have a different application in Limit (effectively pricing out draws, isolation, hand selection, blind resteal, board reading, etc.). The pace of the game is also quite slower, so be prepared to wait.

ketz said:

I have stuck to playing NL when it comes to Hold em. However, I am going to start taking up Limit Hold em. What kind of changes should I get my-self assured with or is there not much of a difference in playing styles?

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This is a really good decision you're making, one that I've been thinking about myself. I mostly play (90% of the time) tourneys, but the few times I play ring games its been NL. The truth is everyone should learn the limit game first, consider that most semipros make their money in this setting. If you master the limit game and get to play even at $3/$6 on a regular basis poker can make you a nice income.

To answer your question about the adjustments you need to make, I think for one it depends on what limit you intend to start with, and also if you're going to try the shorthanded tables or the full ones. The one thing I'd suggest you to do is read Sklansky's book "Holdem poker for advanced players", although recently I read in the blog an article from F Paulsson where he says that this book is now a little outdated for how limit is played on-line, at least at the higher limits.

Probably the best advice I can give you is to PM FP, since he's the best limit player in the forum. He'll tell you which books to read and at what limits its best you start at, with the bigger adjustments you need to make from NL. Nothing substitutes experience, so the more you play the better you'll get, but having a nice head start reading the right books and playing the limits that better fit you is an advantage.

As noted, math is a more significant factor in limit. This is because the fixed bet sizes don't allow you to manipulate the pot odds. As a result, you're more likely to be priced in to draw.

Some really excellent suggestions for reading by Jeff and Joe.. I would add Small Stakes Hold 'em by Ed Miller ( with David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth). This is a great book and has a review in our book review section.

I, too, am taking a look at limit holdem as far as cash games are concerned. To be successful you definitely need to know your poker math (correct pot odds, the correct amount of outs, etc...) as the edges are what gets you the most big bets in the long run.

Some really excellent suggestions for reading by Jeff and Joe.. I would add Small Stakes Hold 'em by Ed Miller ( with David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth). This is a great book and has a review in our book review section.

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Very true, altough I haven't had time to finish it (I borrowed it and had to return it), many of the concepts and applications sound truer in low limit games than what you would find in Sklansky's book. This is not to say that Hold'Em for Advanced players shouldn't be read, on the contrary, since it is the foundation for many of the strategies used to beat the small stakes game. And even Sklansky's warn you that most of the fancy plays are lost (semi-bluffind into a calling station). But it is quite true that the way Sklansky will sometimes (drawless board) have you fold QQ if you are c/r on the flop by someone who has raised in early position when only one overcard hits is quite tight compared to the standard of play at the micros. I can see it in the higher stakes when people won't open unless they have something legitimate (KK, KQ, AK, AQ, etc.), but many will play JT or JQ, or even hands as low as Q9 in early position now.

Also the idea that players won't try to steal unless they are in late position(CO or button) is now pretty much obsolete. Players now will try to steal from the CO+1 and sometimes CO+2 if the table is tight (and also buy the button). But as in all things poker, you just have to adjust and think about the situation in order to make good decisions.

rob5775 said:

I, too, am taking a look at limit holdem as far as cash games are concerned.

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Yes Rob, its something that I've really been thinking about for quite a while. I think its embarassing on my part to have never dedicated some time to it. We all get caught up in NL, which you need to learn if going to play tournies, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't learn limit and totally disregard it.

I'll give a look at the book you suggest. Is limit holdem its primary focus? Because I'm looking for something solid to get me started at the lower limits, Sklansky's book is in reality for higher limit games.

joeeagles said:

Yes Rob, its something that I've really been thinking about for quite a while. I think its embarassing on my part to have never dedicated some time to it. We all get caught up in NL, which you need to learn if going to play tournies, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't learn limit and totally disregard it.

I'll give a look at the book you suggest. Is limit hold'em its primary focus? Because I'm looking for something solid to get me started at the lower limits, Sklansky's book is in reality for higher limit games.

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As to your first part, I feel the same way. I'm not looking for the quick score, instead working on steadily and consistently earning a profit. Once I decided limit was a viable option, I searched our resident expert posts (F Paulsson if you were curious).

One of the books he reviewed was Small Stakes (see review here ). I'm only a third of the way through it, but I highly recommend it. You nailed it on the head in regards to Sklansky being geared toward high stakes, and the introduction essentially says that. This book is for those of us at lower limit stakes, where some folks think it is "no fold'em hold'em". It is a limit book, with principals and theories dedicated to limit hold'em. If your going to play limit, I can't recommend it enough.

I gotta get on the road in five minutes, so I don't really have time to make a longer response to this thread right now, besides to say that Small Stakes Hold 'em is a great book for beginning limit players.

Any specific questions about limit hold 'em, let me know and I'll look at it when I get back tomorrow!

I made the switch from NL to Limit very easy. Just go to the .5 / .10 to start and you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.

I started playing NL when I first went online, but with my mates we always played limit cash game (until recently). It is very tricky to bluff and you need to make sure you play very good hands, or you get worn down quickly. The maths are very important.

Another book I would read is super systems. There is a limit section by jen harman that I think is very good. It is most for higher limits but good advise.