nl 25how to make money with JJ or not!

just sat down on the table.
how do we play JJ profitable. Is there really not more than setmining, especially on those lowflops?
poker stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
SB: $25.00
BB: $23.65
UTG: $31.10
MP: $60.30
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $32.65
Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with J:spade: J:diamond:
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, BTN calls $1.25, 1 fold, BB raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($9.60) 2:heart: 4:diamond: 5:spade: (2 players)
BB bets $6.25, Hero raises to $12.50, BB raises to $19.65 all in, Hero calls $7.15
Turn: ($48.90) 3:heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($48.90) T:diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)

no response?

You're probably against Queens or better here. If you're lucky you're against Pocket 7s - pocket 10s but the action looks more like queens or kings than those. I would flat call, or raise all in on the flop... You're already pot committed when you make the raise... so not much else you can do here. I still think you're behind in the hand.

I dont even know where to start on this one, so lets start at the end and work backwards. You posted this, so I assume you lost. I would even bet 50 cents real money it was to AA or KK, maybe QQ. You never should have called that last flop bet. What did you think he was doing that with? You didn't. All you were thinking was "I have pocket jacks plus there's no overs so its all good." But it wasn't and I understand your confusion so thats why I'm posting. Pocket jacks is pretty good right? After all, you almost never even have a pocket pair anyways (5.88% of the time) and that one was JJ so its extra special. But its not. You have the 2nd worst possible type of hand-one pair. Its probably best PF, your right about that, but your mistake was that your thinking stopped at the PF math. It was a mistake because you failed to identify the most important information. Its not starting hand strength, and its not hand strength relative to the flop. Its hand strength relative to the pot size. That just means that JJ is not a big pot hand. And I think this answers your question exactly. When it does win, it will win small pots. Most people wont stack off without a hand that beats a pair of jacks. Thats all that matters. You can adjust for new information like he lead bluffs 2/3 pot on the flop after reraising PF from the BB, but you have no information. You decide on a cut off amount of big blinds with that hand and then stick to it because after a certain amount it will rarely be winning. Aim to take down a small pot after some betting, or take it down with a CB on the flop. Thats how one pair makes money. The answer to the Q "How does JJ lose money?" is what you did. Oh yeah, you should almost never re-min-raise. What did you think that would accomplish?

At PL25, I turned JJ from a marginal loser to a decent winner simply by treating it differently than lower pocket pairs. I'll gladly 3-bet with JJ, but be willing to fold if a tight player 4-bets me. With JJ, there will likely be some post-flop play, so you'll have to play your opponents and the board. I'll still set-mine with them in certain situations, but usually I play them as they are: a strong hand that doesn't need to hit to continue. Just don't get too attached to them when overcards hit the board.

6-max in a 25nl I think is not so bad to go all in with jacks on the flop since people are willing to call u with A high sometimes

nutzzcase said:

6-max in a 25nl I think is not so bad to go all in with jacks on the flop since people are willing to call u with A high sometimes

Click to expand...

pushing all in is different than calling all in, like the OP did. In this situation, you don't raise, you either flat call and look for another card, or you push. Raising, even min-raising, pot commits you. Period. You CANNOT let your opponent put the pressure on you... at this point, you either make a play for all his chips or seriously consider folding....neither which the OP was going to do.

2lillies is right here... Jacks are not a big enough hand in this situation given this information to justify a raise, let alone a raise for all your chips. Your mistake, however, isn't calling all in...its the flop raise. You overvalued your pair of jacks because they were bigger than the board.

For starters, JJ should be in the top 5 or 6 of your most profitable hands you play. In my database, it the 3rd biggest winning hand. So no your not playing JJ for setmining purposes.

Without stats on villain, this looks very much like a PP or overcards. So not really a lot of analysis can be made here without stats.

i like to play my JJ as if i have 88 or 77.

obviously not if the flop contains a 7 or 8 lol.

I find it much more profitable to give them less value than they hold pre flop and find it easy to fold on even a good looking flop when im being bet into and re-raised

As a standard line I think you should be calling the flop against an unknown and giving up to any double barrel (that isn't a jack). I think generally people will just give up without a bigger pair, and although sometimes he'll be going nuts with 99-TT or whatever, you can still safely fold since it's not that probable you're ahead.

If we have reads that he's aggressive (ie has any PP here) and is bad enough to call those smaller pairs or even with AK-AJ for the overs+gutshot here, then shoving is definitely good.

The only way this hand wins is if you're facing someone thinking exactly what you're thinking with pocket 8-10's instead of jacks. Once in a while you'll see a total donk with A5 or something making this kind of play but he reraised preflop so you really can't assume that.