Night of the Living Card Dead

Mr Sandbag · Sep 25, 2013

Today was yet another session where I was completely and utterly card dead. There's almost nothing worse, IMO, because you're just folding constantly while poor players trade huge pots right in front of you.

Anyways, these obscenely card dead sessions seem to happen to me once every 4 or 5 sessions, and I'm having trouble handling them. At the end of a session, I'll realize I've lost 1-2 buy ins without recalling how exactly. I take my shots at pots with nothing every once in awhile, but it is rarely with any huge bet. I chase draws only when I've got the odds to do so. I raise preflop only a few times. But I still somehow leak chips all over hell.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these miserable sessions? They're not only deflating to my bankroll but to my confidence also.

LD1977 · Sep 25, 2013

Nope, same here.

Fish can't be pushed off hands so if you are card dead you WILL lose, end of story. Schooled fish (TM

) are even worse since getting a fold in these situations is utterly impossible.

Theory that TPTK hands can win in these situations just doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my own experience.

Scenario:
- 2 limp, you raise from HJ with AQ/AK type hand, CO and limpers call; pot is 4-way
- you hit TPTK, fish donks with crap sizing (3bb seems to be favored) and you raise pot to try and isolate (forget raising smaller, it just entices everybody to call), CO fish calls, donker calls, you are now vs 2 fish in an inflated pot, they both have something or some kind of draw and they are starting to feel committed (and likely one of them has you beat already since originally there were 3 of them)
- turn, donker donks again for 1/4 pot or less, you do what exactly with your top pair on a typical board that is now showing AT BEST several draws and at worst several completed draws, any of which they possibly hit AND you have another fish behind you
-- if you call you just gave them fantastic odds to see all 5 cards and you have a measly one pair hand
-- if you raise you can only pray they both miss river since you are now in a massive pot and you still have a measly one pair and the board has for sure completed some kind of draw or someone stumbled into 2 pairs along the way
-- if you fold then seriously, don't play against fish they will own you

This is a losing situation over time for sure.

HOWEVER

When you do get good cards (flopped 2 pairs+) you will get paid and have some godlike sessions.

If your luck is consistently bad over time, losses will pile up and yes it is soul crushing. I had a 100k hands stretch like that and it ****ing sucked (not to mention I actually played vs schooled fish on purpose since somehow people think that playing multiway no-foldem-holdem is the best thing ever and I didnt' know better).

RodneyC86 · Sep 25, 2013

LD1977 said:
Nope, same here.

Fish can't be pushed off hands so if you are card dead you WILL lose, end of story. Schooled fish (TM ) are even worse since getting a fold in these situations is utterly impossible.

Theory that TPTK hands can win in these situations just doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my own experience.

Scenario:
- 2 limp, you raise from HJ with AQ/AK type hand, CO and limpers call; pot is 4-way
- you hit TPTK, fish donks with crap sizing (3bb seems to be favored) and you raise pot to try and isolate (forget raising smaller, it just entices everybody to call), CO fish calls, donker calls, you are now vs 2 fish in an inflated pot, they both have something or some kind of draw and they are starting to feel committed (and likely one of them has you beat already since originally there were 3 of them)
- turn, donker donks again for 1/4 pot or less, you do what exactly with your top pair on a typical board that is now showing AT BEST several draws and at worst several completed draws, any of which they possibly hit AND you have another fish behind you
-- if you call you just gave them fantastic odds to see all 5 cards and you have a measly one pair hand
-- if you raise you can only pray they both miss river since you are now in a massive pot and you still have a measly one pair and the board has for sure completed some kind of draw or someone stumbled into 2 pairs along the way
-- if you fold then seriously, don't play against fish they will own you

This is a losing situation over time for sure.

HOWEVER

When you do get good cards (flopped 2 pairs+) you will get paid and have some godlike sessions.

If your luck is consistently bad over time, losses will pile up and yes it is soul crushing. I had a 100k hands stretch like that and it ****ing sucked (not to mention I actually played vs schooled fish on purpose since somehow people think that playing multiway no-foldem-holdem is the best thing ever and I didnt' know better).

Aye I agree that by the nature of their unyielding play, variance is gonna go through the roof. Heck given maximal calling station, the variance is gonna be as swingy as high stakes poker I reckon.

But I disagree about the fear of them spiking two pair or outdrawing you. Playing premiums even at the risk of being in a school versus 3 fish is still better than playing speculative. Your argument about them spiking two pair makes little sense as you too are just as likely to spike a 2p. Only diff is you are much more capable by respecting a raise from passive fish. That diff should be more than enough to carry you through these situations

italiano · Sep 25, 2013

We are the same! my sessions are lousy lately! I think the time away would be good to step back and re-start the cold mind set on what matters! At most the odd freeroll play! I think it would be right!

Mr Sandbag · Sep 25, 2013

I hit TPTK maybe one time yesterday and collected a small pot with it. The few shots I took at pots with a weak hand (or nothing at all) were in hands where nobody seemed interested (check, check, check...), but when I bet, I got multiple callers and sudden action that I DIDN'T want. I also missed on every set mining opportunity and every draw of the night.

The worst part is that a man sat down at my table for about a 2 hour time period and was just SPEWING chips. He hit a few really lucky suck outs when he was way behind and had a large stack that I couldn't get a piece of. Worst time to be card dead...

Beanfacekilla · Sep 25, 2013

Being card dead sucks. I hear you man.

I once had run bad last for almost 3 months.

The key to surviving it is to have a plan. Change your play style if table will allow it.

Play LAG on nitty tables and rob them blind, or play tight when the table is crazy.

The most important thing is that you play WELL, regardless of how you are running.

For example:
Don't decide to limp and then call a raise with A-5s OOP simply because it is the best hand you have seen in an hour.

Just play your A-game, and continue ranging opponents and paying close attention to the action while you are at the table.

But probably the most important thing is to maintain a positive frame of mind. Don't let the cold deck get you down. There are many different ways to do this.

I listen to music while playing. I always wear headphones. It really helps keep me in a good mood. I can select an upbeat song if I am starting to get steamy. If I am getting restless, a tranquil song to calm me.

That is just my way of staying centered. You may benefit from a different way.

The main thing is just play good, and ride it out. Don't make thin calls when you know you are behind, etc.

Positive thinking. Happy thoughts. Gooooooos fraba.

Mr Sandbag · Sep 25, 2013

Beanfacekilla said:
Being card dead sucks. I hear you man.

I once had run bad last for almost 3 months.

The key to surviving it is to have a plan. Change your play style if table will allow it.

Play LAG on nitty tables and rob them blind, or play tight when the table is crazy.

The most important thing is that you play WELL, regardless of how you are running.

For example:
Don't decide to limp and then call a raise with A-5s OOP simply because it is the best hand you have seen in an hour.

Just play your A-game, and continue ranging opponents and paying close attention to the action while you are at the table.

But probably the most important thing is to maintain a positive frame of mind. Don't let the cold deck get you down. There are many different ways to do this.

I listen to music while playing. I always wear headphones. It really helps keep me in a good mood. I can select an upbeat song if I am starting to get steamy. If I am getting restless, a tranquil song to calm me.

That is just my way of staying centered. You may benefit from a different way.

The main thing is just play good, and ride it out. Don't make thin calls when you know you are behind, etc.

Positive thinking. Happy thoughts. Gooooooos fraba.

Thanks for the advice!

I usually hit the poker room during "prime times," or windows during the week when the games are softest (Friday evenings, Saturdays, weekday evenings, during tournaments). This means that more often than not the table is pretty loose with lots of action, which, unfortunately for me, means being card dead is synonymous with being completely crippled in the game.

Beanfacekilla · Sep 25, 2013

Mr Sandbag said:
Thanks for the advice!

I usually hit the poker room during "prime times," or windows during the week when the games are softest (Friday evenings, Saturdays, weekday evenings, during tournaments). This means that more often than not the table is pretty loose with lots of action, which, unfortunately for me, means being card dead is synonymous with being completely crippled in the game.

Yeah I hate being card dead at juicy tables.

Just remember, even if you aren't winning ATM on a table, does not mean you are playing bad. Take comfort and pride in being able to do the right thing in tough times.

Edit: being card dead used to be MEGA tilting for me. It was tough for me to overcome it. I still have some work to do in this regard.

May the flop be with you......

SANDYHOOKER KY · Sep 25, 2013

Don't feel bad friend, i had a cold run for 11 months, and lost around 40k, i know that sounds like a fish with no sense, but i learned hot streaks and cold streaks have no definite start or finish. When i did finally catch pocket aces or kings, i got beat like a redheaded stepchild. That was in 1982, when money was flowing and one could afford to blow money without getting hurt. Nowadays, losing a hundred bucks is bad. I finally decided that when i was running cold, just quit for awhile, it will pass without dropping anymore cash. If you go back, and still running cold, get up and quit for another spell, eventually you get back in the groove, with the majority of your bankroll still intact. That is the only way i have found to beat the card dead syndrome.

ezevan1022 · Sep 25, 2013

This is the worst thing about playing live, online you can multitable and this greatly reduces this situation, and if you play enough tables you will always be in a hand.

Beanfacekilla · Sep 25, 2013

ezevan1022 said:
This is the worst thing about playing live, online you can multitable and this greatly reduces this situation, and if you play enough tables you will always be in a hand.

True. However online doesn't even feel like real poker to me. Live is the only form of poker I will ever take seriously.

Mr Sandbag · Sep 26, 2013

Yet another sucky session today. I was less card dead than the previous session but was running bad when I did have hands. Rough couple sessions, but I think I fixed a few preflop leaks and stayed off tilt MOST of the time - I went on mini-tilt towards the end of the session because of a bad call I made on the river. Got up and left shortly after to prevent more spewing. My bankroll took another hit, but I'm hoping there was some value in today's session anyway.

Being card dead in a live game is just so awful.

Beanfacekilla · Sep 26, 2013

Mr Sandbag said:
Yet another sucky session today. I was less card dead than the previous session but was running bad when I did have hands. Rough couple sessions, but I think I fixed a few preflop leaks and stayed off tilt MOST of the time - I went on mini-tilt towards the end of the session because of a bad call I made on the river. Got up and left shortly after to prevent more spewing. My bankroll took another hit, but I'm hoping there was some value in today's session anyway.

Being card dead in a live game is just so awful.

Sorry about your bad luck man. Patience will prevail eventually...

Think about your last couple sessions. Figure out if you played the best you could....

UnluckyDude · Sep 26, 2013

If you are card dead, no reason you can't just move to a different table or walk away and come back later or another day.

Being card dead sucks your morale and affects your mindset. So even if after 2-3 hours you finally get some good cards, you are not going to be playing your A-game.

Set a time limit or stop loss. Example, if you are card dead and lose 25% of your chips or have been card dead for an hour straight, just rack up and walk away. Come back when you mind is clear.

Mr Sandbag · Sep 26, 2013

UnluckyDude said:
If you are card dead, no reason you can't just move to a different table or walk away and come back later or another day.

Being card dead sucks your morale and affects your mindset. So even if after 2-3 hours you finally get some good cards, you are not going to be playing your A-game.

Set a time limit or stop loss. Example, if you are card dead and lose 25% of your chips or have been card dead for an hour straight, just rack up and walk away. Come back when you mind is clear.

2-3 hours of bad cards is nothing, especially live. It usually doesn't affect me until about 5 hours of it.

I set a stop loss this time, though. Half of a buy in and I leave. I tilted towards the end and went a bit more than that, but I didn't blow through an entire buy in with bad cards like I've done before.

On a side note, I think this is one big aspect of cash games where tourney players struggle. If you are card dead in tournaments, you have to make something out of nothing or bust. You are forced to play mediocre cards and take shots at pots. In cash, I've seen so many people who have been card dead start doing that as if they are going to lose otherwise. I used to be mainly a tourney player, and I'm still trying to make the adjustment over long periods of time.

rumsey182 · Sep 27, 2013

LD1977 said:
Nope, same here.

Fish can't be pushed off hands so if you are card dead you WILL lose, end of story. Schooled fish (TM ) are even worse since getting a fold in these situations is utterly impossible.

Theory that TPTK hands can win in these situations just doesn't hold up to scrutiny in my own experience.

Scenario:
- 2 limp, you raise from HJ with AQ/AK type hand, CO and limpers call; pot is 4-way
- you hit TPTK, fish donks with crap sizing (3bb seems to be favored) and you raise pot to try and isolate (forget raising smaller, it just entices everybody to call), CO fish calls, donker calls, you are now vs 2 fish in an inflated pot, they both have something or some kind of draw and they are starting to feel committed (and likely one of them has you beat already since originally there were 3 of them)
- turn, donker donks again for 1/4 pot or less, you do what exactly with your top pair on a typical board that is now showing AT BEST several draws and at worst several completed draws, any of which they possibly hit AND you have another fish behind you
-- if you call you just gave them fantastic odds to see all 5 cards and you have a measly one pair hand
-- if you raise you can only pray they both miss river since you are now in a massive pot and you still have a measly one pair and the board has for sure completed some kind of draw or someone stumbled into 2 pairs along the way
-- if you fold then seriously, don't play against fish they will own you

This is a losing situation over time for sure.

HOWEVER

When you do get good cards (flopped 2 pairs+) you will get paid and have some godlike sessions.

If your luck is consistently bad over time, losses will pile up and yes it is soul crushing. I had a 100k hands stretch like that and it ****ing sucked (not to mention I actually played vs schooled fish on purpose since somehow people think that playing multiway no-foldem-holdem is the best thing ever and I didnt' know better).

sounds like your tilting because you don;t to do what you need to do to crush loose passive fish,.... stay calm, be patient, and there are other ways to win pots without having hands just play a stronger overall range then villains at every point and you will naturally win money long term

also the goal isnt to chase big pots and big wins thats a big pie in the sky idea the goal is to profit and to play first and for most profitably and secondly play to maximize profits it is not an ego trip

edit @LD sorry miss quoted the wrong person don't know how to fix it and i was trying to address the problem with OP's mindset he seems to have lost track of why he should be in a live cash game and is steaming and bitching about poker variance that is somehting i used to struggle with took me many years to control and if i was trying to blindly add to my posts i would have waited till i can post more as i hit the limit of 10 but i post plenty on deucescracked and have a high post count there and when pokerroad was alive posted a ton there sorry if i offended you

LD1977 · Sep 27, 2013

How is that reply relevant to anything? It seems to me you either don't understand what is being said in first 2 posts of the thread or are just pumping up your post count for obvious reasons.

trekmaster · Sep 27, 2013

Everyone has these sessions.The trick is to keep these losses to a minimum and keep your wits about you.You cant expect to have a winning session every time you sit down.Play your game and dont let the bad sessions get you down. There is always next time.

Dalsue214 · Sep 27, 2013

Mr Sandbag said:
Today was yet another session where I was completely and utterly card dead. There's almost nothing worse, IMO, because you're just folding constantly while poor players trade huge pots right in front of you.

Anyways, these obscenely card dead sessions seem to happen to me once every 4 or 5 sessions, and I'm having trouble handling them. At the end of a session, I'll realize I've lost 1-2 buy ins without recalling how exactly. I take my shots at pots with nothing every once in awhile, but it is rarely with any huge bet. I chase draws only when I've got the odds to do so. I raise preflop only a few times. But I still somehow leak chips all over hell.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these miserable sessions? They're not only deflating to my bankroll but to my confidence also.

You need to control your VPIP and save your chips for when you need it. Control your mind.

Mr Sandbag · Sep 27, 2013

Thanks for all the advice. I'm on dinner break about 4 hrs into a session now. Very card dead, but I'm happy to say I'm not even close to tilting like I would have been awhile ago! I'll let you know if it ever picks up...

Night of the Living Card Dead

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