Need tips on extracting the most out of a hand

cdooley72

cdooley72

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2012
Total posts
517
Awards
1
Chips
0
Recently switched over to play cash games instead of tournaments. And I can not seem to find that money spot on extracting the most money on my winning hands Pre or post flop. I almost feel like they know when I have it. I have tried different things and can not find that sweet spot. Any one have any advice? I know that it all depends on the situation. Just looking for generality's I guess something to point me in the right direction.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Just post a hand where you think you lost value inc villain stats and we can go over it. Bet sizin is prob the issue
 
Timmah120

Timmah120

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
283
Awards
1
Chips
0
In my experiences, if you start to do something out of the ordinary, they take notice. If you are viewed as a loose-agressive player at your current table and all of a sudden you start check/calling, they will know something is up. If you are being viewed as a tight-passive player and all of a sudden you start raising like crazy, they know something's up.

Everytime you do something that is out of the ordinary, people take notice....well, those people that are smart enough to know they should be observing other players, anyways. Even if you consider yourself tight-agressive, you may appear to be a loose player if you've just caught a run of good cards that didn't go to showdown.

As you mentioned, it has a lot to do with particular situations, but that is my general advice.

Hopefully I wasn't too confusing....
 
cdooley72

cdooley72

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2012
Total posts
517
Awards
1
Chips
0
Just post a hand where you think you lost value inc villain stats and we can go over it. Bet sizin is prob the issue

I do not have a tracker running right now so it might be hard to find a certain hand. (any advice on that?) I think you are right on the bet sizing issue. I have tried several different sizes and methods to see what works best against a certain player type and I can not see to find the right play. Dont get me wrong certain times all is well and it works out great. But there are time when I feel I can get more and feel a little lost so to say how to go about it.

In my experiences, if you start to do something out of the ordinary, they take notice. If you are viewed as a loose-agressive player at your current table and all of a sudden you start check/calling, they will know something is up. If you are being viewed as a tight-passive player and all of a sudden you start raising like crazy, they know something's up.

Everytime you do something that is out of the ordinary, people take notice....well, those people that are smart enough to know they should be observing other players, anyways. Even if you consider yourself tight-agressive, you may appear to be a loose player if you've just caught a run of good cards that didn't go to showdown.

As you mentioned, it has a lot to do with particular situations, but that is my general advice.

Hopefully I wasn't too confusing....

I hear that and I try to no be to predictable and mix up my play style to the best of my ability. I just feel there is something lacking in my game in this area.

Thanks for the advice so far,

Dooley
 
Timmah120

Timmah120

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
283
Awards
1
Chips
0
I've heard a couple of different strategies in regards to bet sizing. The one I use most often at the Hold'em table is the "keep everything the same preflop" method.

If I have AA in late position and there are two limpers, I raise 3x the BB plus the amount of the two limpers. For example. if the BB is 2 bucks, I'd raise $10. If no one opened, I'd raise $6. If I am UTG with QQ+, I bet 4x the BB. Anywhere else, I bet the standard 3x the BB. I will re-raise people with premium hands too, but always the same amount pre-flop. You'd be amazed at how many people pay no attention to what you are doing...especially at the micro-low limits.
 
G

GWU73

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
785
Chips
0
Without specific examples, all I can do is give you my basic game plan. This is what works for me. Some people on here will suggest a tighter strategy. I play this way because I find that I can get my very big hands paid off, and I can win a lot of 8-15bb pots with air. Use your own pre flop standards, but I will show my standard for online play. That said I believe in being VERY AGGRESSIVE with a big hand or big draw, and REASONABLY AGGRESSIVE with fairly strong hands like top pair top kicker. I only slow play hands that are so big I cannot imagine someone calling.

I am raising 3bb 100% of the time when I open the pot.
In any position I will open any pocket pair, AK & AQs
--If the table is tight I also open JTs+ from any position.
----if any hand below QQ gets 3bet I am usually going to fold unless the raiser ----has loose 3bet patterns or the stacks are very deep.
From middle position I will also open any suited A, or Broadway hands, suited connectors, and 1 gappers.
From late position I am opening suited 2 gappers, A7+, K8s+

I only call raises with good implied odds, and position.(the exception being in defense of my big blind) I like any pair, and if there are at least 2 players in the pot I will play suited connectors, including up to 2 gappers, & suited Aces if I expect the pot will not be raised after I put money in. I also like to 3bet these hands occasionally, but that may not be right for you.

If I bet pre flop I am c-betting every flop with 1 or 2 opponents (2/3-3/4 pot, and occasionally pot). If there are more players, I need a draw, or top pair to bet. ***key point*** BET THE STRONG HANDS. This is where I get paid. If I raise 55 and the flop comes AT5, I can usually stack hands like AK on the flop. The same is true for flops like 67A with suited connectors or small pairs.
(it is ok to check raise the flop occasionally if it comes A high and you flop a set, people like to stack off with to pair)

Clearly if you get raised and have a marginal or weak hand, it is a fold.

I like to maintain my aggression on the turn with top pair or better, if my draw comes in, or if my opponent is a folder. I will check to callers if I have a weak hand.

The river is pretty much the same as the turn, I am rarely putting money without a likely winner.

I find that when people do not respect my raises, they are more likely to pay me off.

3&4 betting is something I would suggest you save for big hands until you are beating the cash games already.

I like to occasionally do a dead money grab from around the button or the blinds. When I do it is with one of the speculative hands I would open a pot with air a very big hand that I would have value raised with anyway.

I also suggest getting a HUD and using it to find the idiots. When you can effectively identify & exploit them, your win rate will go up.
*A side note. In a vacuum 22-55, & JTs - AJs are losers in the early positions. Many solid players limp or fold them there. I play them because it creates doubt about what I may be raising with. Showing up with a surprise hand that is near the nuts is how I win most of the big pots I play.

This strategy usually has me voluntarily putting money in the pot around 16-18% and raising around 10-12% pre flop. (the calls usually in position with a small pair or suited connector) It is fairly loose for online full ring games, but not so loose that I bleed chips when I am missing flops. It also relies on reading hands fairly well on the flop and turn. If you have trouble figuring where you are at by that point, just give up on the hand, you're likely beat.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
"-if any hand below QQ gets 3bet I am usually going to fold unless the raiser ----has loose 3bet patterns or the stacks are very deep."

this is bad. 22-JJ plays awful vs a wide 3b range (you imply that you set mine and not 4b) and you therefore should be 4bing these hands. the tighter the 3bers 3b stat is, the more often we can flat a PP to set mine


as for finding a hand dooley itll be next to impossible without a tracker. next time you feel you have one though just insta copy the HH and post it in here at the end of your session
 
G

GWU73

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
785
Chips
0
If light 3 bet I will 4 bet most of the time (standard stack sizes), however if stacks are deep ie 250 bb, I will flat a hand like TT or JJ and raise or check raise almost any flop. This is very player dependent. Also I noted that in a vacuum some of the weaker hands play poorly in early position. They do however seem to get paid for stacks consistently, where hands like AA tens to win small to medium pots. Post was intended to offer a good starting point for getting value from hands: I could have just posted : Only idiots pay off nitty players.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Easy, just FYPing for clarification for OP
 
cdooley72

cdooley72

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2012
Total posts
517
Awards
1
Chips
0
"-if any hand below QQ gets 3bet I am usually going to fold unless the raiser ----has loose 3bet patterns or the stacks are very deep."

this is bad. 22-JJ plays awful vs a wide 3b range (you imply that you set mine and not 4b) and you therefore should be 4bing these hands. the tighter the 3bers 3b stat is, the more often we can flat a PP to set mine


as for finding a hand dooley itll be next to impossible without a tracker. next time you feel you have one though just insta copy the HH and post it in here at the end of your session

Ok, I downloaded FPDB it was a little tricky setting up but I got it. And for free hell I can not complain it has a few glitches here and there. But for free it goes well beyond serving its purposes. It might take me a little bit of time, there a more then a few hands to look though. But I will get there.

Would you rather see Pre flop, Post flop or both. I think my issues is more post but is more infor is better just let me know.


Easy, just FYPing for clarification for OP

I have no idea what this means.

Thanks for all the help do far guys. Just trying to get my game to the next LVL and I really feel that there is more money to be made by me in this area.

Thanks again,

Dooley
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
lol...

it means "yo GWU no need to get defensive. i was just fixing your post for clarification for the original poster, aka cdooley"
 
cdooley72

cdooley72

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2012
Total posts
517
Awards
1
Chips
0
OK I found this hand, I know there is more but alot to go through. I was so worried about the flush draw I was not sure how to play it out. And I think I could have gotten more out of it.


poker stars $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1944112
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $2.00
Hero (UTG): $6.77
MP: $3.84
CO: $1.64
BTN: $1.51
SB: $2.60

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is UTG with 8 <font color='red'>♥</font> 8 <font color='red'>♦</font>
Hero raises to $0.12, MP calls $0.12, 2 folds, SB calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.40) Q <font color='black'>♠</font> 8 <font color='black'>♠</font> K <font color='black'>♣</font> (3 players)
SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $6.65 all in, MP folds, SB folds

Final Pot: $1.20
Hero wins $1.12
(Rake: $0.08)
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
ha.

dont be scared of the FD man, thats how you make all your money. just raise that up OTF to something that all the draws can still call, but are still calling incorrectly.. something like $2, then just autoshove the turn, even if its a spade

EDIT: just saw vils weak ass stack. prob make it even less like $1.80 and hes still super committed on the turn
 
cdooley72

cdooley72

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2012
Total posts
517
Awards
1
Chips
0
ha.

dont be scared of the FD man, thats how you make all your money. just raise that up OTF to something that all the draws can still call, but are still calling incorrectly.. something like $2, then just autoshove the turn, even if its a spade

EDIT: just saw vils weak ass stack. prob make it even less like $1.80 and hes still super committed on the turn

I know and I try not to be but all the times that they are drawing for the flush stand out more then the times that they are not.

I am getting more balls every day and trying to remember that it is the long run that counts. Not the hand full of times that they do suck out.

Thanks for the advice
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands Poker Tips
Top