Moving up stakes from NL5 to NL10. Finding it really tough!!

I've built a bankroll from $80 upto $300 playing NL2 and NL5. I've taken a couple of shots at NL10, once at $220 and another quick attempt at $250 but wasn't very successful.

Now I'm at $300 I decided to have another go. I've just moved from Befair to Full Tilt and the games seem much more aggressive, especially NL10. I feel like every time I raise from the CO and BTN, even if I play a nitty style, I'm getting 3-bet from the blinds. It seems like everyone is few spewy and the only way to play is to join in.

I've actually won a few buy-ins on the last session after opening my game up a bit more and not being scared of all the 3-betting that seems to be going on and even throwing in 4-bets vs. some opponents dependent on stats and position.

I've had a couple of coolers such as flopped sets vs big pocket pairs and also lost my biggest pot even this morning with QQ vs AA Should have folded pre-flop but it's difficult to do when 3-bets are flying around everywhere.

Anyway if anyone has advice on moving up to these stakes it would be greatly appreciated. Here are my stats from all the stakes I have played: cash_chart.png

tim132 said:

I've built a bankroll from $80 upto $300 playing NL2 and NL5. I've taken a couple of shots at NL10, once at $220 and another quick attempt at $250 but wasn't very successful.

Now I'm at $300 I decided to have another go. I've just moved from Befair to Full Tilt and the games seem much more aggressive, especially NL10. I feel like every time I raise from the CO and BTN, even if I play a nitty style, I'm getting 3-bet from the blinds. It seems like everyone is few spewy and the only way to play is to join in.

I've actually won a few buy-ins on the last session after opening my game up a bit more and not being scared of all the 3-betting that seems to be going on and even throwing in 4-bets vs. some opponents dependent on stats and position.

I've had a couple of coolers such as flopped sets vs big pocket pairs and also lost my biggest pot even this morning with QQ vs AA Should have folded pre-flop but it's difficult to do when 3-bets are flying around everywhere.

Anyway if anyone has advice on moving up to these stakes it would be greatly appreciated. Here are my stats from all the stakes I have played: cash_chart.png

Click to expand...

\

This 6max or FR? I had a very had time going from 5NL- 10NL as well but I think mainly because 5NL was pretty soft. Just table select a lot more and look into different 3bet strategies. Once I started talking to others about polarized and depolarized 3bets and what types of players to do it against I have actually started winning.

Post hands too )

Sorry yeah the games I play are 6 max. I remember reading that you were struggling at NL10, I'm glad you're starting to be profitable now! I've read about polarized bets at some stage, haven't studied it yet though. Is it something to do with betting strongly, polarizing your hand to being either on a big bluff or a big hand?

Guess I need to do some more studying! I can't believe how NL10 can be so different, maybe the coolers aren't helping me coming to this conclusion either. Being almost 8 buy-ins down after 3k hands is new to me.

I'll post some hands also..

Yes, it's not that different. In my experience, having very recently played 6max 2NL -> 50NL, that the stakes become progressively more difficult the higher you go. That's hardly surprising, as the uber donks go broke quicker the higher up you go. However, there's not a HUGE difference between each one. So just play 10NL the way you played 5NL and you should be fine. Do not over adjust.

tim132 said:

Sorry yeah the games I play are 6 max. I remember reading that you were struggling at NL10, I'm glad you're starting to be profitable now! I've read about polarized bets at some stage, haven't studied it yet though. Is it something to do with betting strongly, polarizing your hand to being either on a big bluff or a big hand?

Guess I need to do some more studying! I can't believe how NL10 can be so different, maybe the coolers aren't helping me coming to this conclusion either. Being almost 8 buy-ins down after 3k hands is new to me.

I'll post some hands also..

Click to expand...

are you using a hud? yeah but 3k hands is nothing so dont sweat it. A couple ppl helped me understand it a lot better in sweats but basically try to think about what youre doing when you 3bet.

If its vs a fish who never folds (F3B: 50%), we have AQ IP its a value bet. Same position and hand but this time its vs a reg who has a F3B: 80% - we flat b/c if we 3bet we get hands like AJ to fold.

Polarized = nuts or air but we tend to 3bet polarized hands with blockers and hands that still have decent equity.

Depolarized = Middle equity hands and up. hands we think we can bet for value


Couple posts in here helped me a bit as well...

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/10-nlhe-6-max-kjo-3-a-220488/

Thanks for link, I'm just having a read through it now. Yes I do use a hud, I posted a link on my first post to my stats. Maybe I'm just getting cold cards atm and possibly over adjusting too much also like Cafeman said.

Going to have to read up on polarization again though and put some time into studying it.

your 3bets higher than mine

stats seem ok, I think widen up everywhere preflop and raise more as opposed to flatting.

although 5/6 PFR gap seems to be standard at 6m, not too sure.

OMGITSOVER9K said:

your 3bets higher than mine

Click to expand...

And a good deal higher than mine too

You're 3 bet is lower than mine ^^ Also seems to be abit too big of a gap in some stakes with you're PFR and VPIP.

Whoops lol, time to calm down with the 3 bet frenquency then and just aim to widen my range pre-flop. Thanks for all the advice as always!

In for dick measuring 3bet stats.

It's fine if you're getting folds/value where you want it. If you feel as though you're getting into a lot of spots you shouldn't be while 3betting, then mark those hands and perhaps reconsider things.

pocketehs said:

In for dick measuring 3bet stats.

Click to expand...

No one here has a lower 3bet than mine I bet.

WTSD 30/W€SD 58/WWSF 49

flop cbet 55% lmao

I don't play by the rules, so what you gonna do about it.

its really tough yeah! keep up playing the 5 cents until you reach the 300 mark
trust me its the best for you and your play and dont worry if it takes a few more days or even weeks...no matter huh?
gl

definitely wait for $300 before going to 10nl.
Prob need at least 30 buyins before you move to each new level if you want to follow bankroll management then move back down if you go back to around $250 ish

Yeah I did wait until I was at $300 this time. I dropped 4 BI's on Full Tilt, the other 3 BI losses are from previous shots at betfair.

I think the main difference I've noticed, moving from Betfair NL4 to Full Tilt NL10 is I seem to be getting more people playing back at me with 3-bets which I wasn't used to before.

Over the weekend I have began opening more hands pre-flop which obviously helps to polarize my pre-flop range and also been focusing on others players 3 & 4 bet frequencies when deciding whether to fold or raise.

I've tightened up my VPIP/PFR gap to 20/17 too. My 3-bet seems have got higher mind you (8.5%) but I am getting folds/value from picking the correct spots (most the time).

Other than that it seems much the same game as before at NL4/NL5. One other thing I have noticed though is I seem to have to c-bet a lot higher, say between 2/3 - 4/5 of the pot. Betting this much on Betfair used to scare people off but doesn't seem to so much on Full Tilt, also double-barrelling the turn with a pot-sized bet with draws and air seems to be quite successful.

I feel like I'm starting to get to grips with NL10 now thanks to everyone commenting on my hands and giving advice. I've also been reading other hand histories at NL10 which has helped.

I'm actually back in the green now (on Full Tilt at least), partly because of rakeback but I did grind back 4 BI's so I'm gaining in confidence and a lot happier at this level thanks to everyone I hope I can return the favour one day!

Hey, impressive results Tim. What sites are you playing on? I would hire a coach to help you in your efforts to the climb the micros. Someone who can help you understand how to combat aggressive 3 bettors, which is becoming ever more common these days - what is your 4 betting range generally - when and why would you 4 bet an opponent?

20 buy ins for next stake is also fine, doesn't have to be 30, really just how much you tilt and how much you are beating the current stake.

Also their isn't much light 3 betting at 10nl, at least at pokerstars.

One thing I noticed is that your fold to 3 bet is awfully low, your going to be putting yourself in alot of tough decisions for an inflated pot, these hands can make or break you.

Cafeman said:

No one here has a lower 3bet than mine I bet.

Click to expand...

Fix that and exploit the regs with a really hi fold to 3 bet. At 66% fold to 3 bet any two cards become profitable and this is before any equity is given to your hand. Mine is lower then alot of peoples probably 5-6 range, but it just varies on the level of aggression, when I have two passive opponents to my immediate right seems I'm never 3 betting, compared to, 2 loose aggressive opponents my 3 bet goes way up.

I think when I wrote that it was around 5% which was defo lower than all the dick swinging 6maxers on here. Now it's probs more around 7%. Things change, people move on, and even I started becoming more aggro pre... who'd a thought it.

We should have a race to see who can get it larger over a certain sample Neil!

Mine was about 4.5-5 before you sweated me. Now it is 6.5-7

Last one to 8 is a wuss!

Mine is 8 at 25NL, does I win?