Moving on up, Cash Game Thread

IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Hi all, over the past weekend I withdrew over half of my bank roll and then played some stakes that I probably should not have with what was left on the account and after a couple of beats, I have $47 on my Bovada account. Even though I could redeposit, I don't want to for obvious reasons so I am going to move down to $5NL 6 max for the time being and work my way up through the stakes, hopefully to $100NL 6max in the end game. I am going to use this thread to post hands and document the climb.

Plan, Grind 5NL to $150, start taking shots at 10NL

Grind 10NL to $250, start taking shots at 25NL I am using pretty aggressive BRM at first because I am confident that I can beat the stakes.

At 25NL I will tighten up on BRM and take shots at 50NL at $1000 and then finally $100NL at $3,000+

Hoping to get in a MINIMUM of 20k hands a month and hopefully closer to 30k. Also, finish reading Applications of NLHE by Matthew Janda!! Tough read, but a good one. Anyone else read it or plan on it?

Below are my online results for the year, for the first 6 months of the year I pretty much played live 1/2 only so the volume is kind of lacking.

U4bwQoh.png


Stake|Game|Won|Currency Won|Hands|Hands Won|Sessions|Sessions Won|BB/100

Pretty much AMA, will start posting hands soon.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Here is a couple of the hands from the bad weekend, not much to learn technically, but a good example of why we should practice proper bankroll management.

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 352.42 BB
Hero (CO): 142.29 BB
BTN: 105.7 BB
SB: 102.7 BB
BB: 111.35 BB
UTG: 141.9 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:spade: Q:heart:

fold, MP calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB, fold

Flop: (11.5 BB, 2 players) K:spade: 3:diamond: Q:club:
BB checks, Hero bets 8 BB, BB raises to 26 BB, Hero calls 18 BB

Turn: (63.5 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond:
BB bets 28.75 BB, Hero calls 28.75 BB

River: (121 BB, 2 players) K:heart:
BB bets 51.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 51.6 BB

BB shows Q:diamond: K:diamond: (Full House, Kings full of Queens)
(Pre 35%, Flop 13%, Turn 25%)
Hero mucks Q:spade: Q:heart: (Full House, Queens full of Kings)
(Pre 65%, Flop 87%, Turn 75%)
BB wins 221.2 BB


I do think I should raise the turn in this hand to get value from a J10 hand that gives up on river.

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 100 BB
UTG: 105.2 BB
CO: 32.88 BB
BTN: 139.37 BB
Hero (SB): 135 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:club: Q:club:

fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, BTN calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 6:heart: J:club: 9:diamond:
Hero bets 13.56 BB, BTN raises to 27.12 BB, Hero calls 13.56 BB

Turn: (75.24 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
Hero checks, BTN bets 102.25 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 97.88 BB and is all-in

River: (271 BB, 2 players) 6:club:

BTN shows J:heart: J:diamond: (Full House, Jacks full of Sixes)
(Pre 67%, Flop 72%, Turn 23%)
Hero shows T:club: Q:club: (Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 33%, Flop 28%, Turn 77%)
BTN wins 269 BB
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Started my first 5NL session about 15 minutes ago and played this hand. First orbit at this table.

SB ($2.43)
BB ($13.11)
UTG ($5.15)
UTG+1 ($5.22) Hero
BTN ($0.77)

Hero Dealt TsTc

Fold, Hero Raises $0.15, Fold, Fold BB calls $0.10

Flop ($0.32) Ah 2h Js

BB Checks, Hero Checks

Turn ($0.32) 9s

BB Checks, Hero Bets $0.21, BB Calls $0.21

River ($0.74) 8s

BB $0.74, Hero Raises $2.62

Thoughts?

Maybe an error or two considering I typed all of this out. Next week I will be able to post the good HH's as I play them, but have to wait until Thursday for that.
 
R

rlzaleski

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Can you post some hands you win big with? I love your posts but am starting to think I play totally different and want to see some hands you get value in.

GL on rebuilding everything!
 
H

Hirevr

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You seem to be a winning player. Why waste time playing for cheeseburgers.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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You seem to be a winning player. Why waste time playing for cheeseburgers.

Punishment for poor BRM? Maybe I'll be more cautious in future when I start from the bottom and I'm not in a position to redeposit atm. If I really end up wanting too I can but I'd rather not. I like a good challenge too. After 2 weeks, if I'm still at 5NL, I may just say f it and deposit a roll for 25NL and this thread will be more about moving from 25NL to 100NL
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Gl buddy hopefully my br stays infront haha
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Got over 2k hands in today for exactly $50 profit.

Bankroll started $47.xx, ended $97.11

Played pretty well, the spots you can get value in on 5NL is insane. Feel like I played well, made some calls I normally would not have that were bad that I wouldn't have normally at 25NL+. I feel like they were justified and against more loose aggressive players but maybe not caring about the stakes as much?

I'll post some hands tomorrow night or Thursday morning, the 24 hour thing for Bovada kind of sucks but hopefully I'll have Card Catcher this weekend so I can post/mark hands as they happen.

Been awhile since I had 7+ buy ins on one table.

nVlbCgf.png
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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haha nice that first session was pretty important to get out of the way and start solid :)

would've been embarrassing to hit a downfall and busto.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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haha nice that first session was pretty important to get out of the way and start solid :)

would've been embarrassing to hit a downfall and busto.

Lmao, don't jinx me man :p

You are right though, 9 buy ins can go pretty bad, I think I should be good with 20 buy ins considering how soft Bovada is. Just need to make sure I follow my BRM course and not sit at 25NL or something.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Pretty meh session today, nothing eventful and ran like ass. On the plus side, I got the Bovada CardCatcher which is pretty cool. It is another reason why I didn't mind moving down in stakes until I get used to the program and get it set up appropriately.

All in all I got in about 800 hands.

Start: $97.11, End: $97.01

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 10.2 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
SB: 79.6 BB (VPIP: 31.58, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 19)
BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 145 BB
MP: 101.2 BB (VPIP: 48.28, PFR: 13.79, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 30)
CO: 117.4 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: A:club:

Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 9:heart: A:diamond: J:diamond:
Hero bets 4.6 BB, MP calls 4.6 BB

Turn: (16.6 BB, 2 players) K:heart:
Hero bets 11.2 BB, MP raises to 22.4 BB, Hero raises to 54.4 BB

Ok spot for a turn 3 bet?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Against a decent reg or a tight player yes. He's only got just under a 1/3 of his stack invested and it's last chance for him to fold.

This villain you have absolute no chance to fold this guy... He's a bit on the passive side as well being 48/13 and fishy... So if he's betting he ain't going anywhere.. So flip it around you bet your spewing.

Bad spot :) that's being polite.
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Against a decent reg or a tight player yes. He's only got just under a 1/3 of his stack invested and it's last chance for him to fold.

This villain you have absolute no chance to fold this guy... He's a bit on the passive side as well being 48/13 and fishy... So if he's betting he ain't going anywhere.. So flip it around you bet your spewing.

Bad spot :) that's being polite.

My raise was for value, not a bluff.
 
Mr Sandbag

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Plan, Grind 5NL to $150, start taking shots at 10NL

Grind 10NL to $250, start taking shots at 25NL I am using pretty aggressive BRM at first because I am confident that I can beat the stakes.

At 25NL I will tighten up on BRM and take shots at 50NL at $1000 and then finally $100NL at $3,000+

I would recommend a slightly more aggressive BRM tbh (if you're playing on Bovada especially).

You can probably start taking shots at 10NL with only 8-10 BI for it as long as you stick to a strict stop loss before moving back down. If you want to be a little safer you can make it 10-12 BI or something. Even if you make your stop loss $75 that's 15 BI for 5NL.

You seem to be a solid player already based on the results you posted so prolonging shot taking is only costing you money and opportunity IMO.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

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My raise was for value, not a bluff.

I'm not entirely sure I agree that it's a good spot for a value raise, but if you are raising for value make it much larger. He's not going to fold worse two pair or combo draws.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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I'm not entirely sure I agree that it's a good spot for a value raise, but if you are raising for value make it much larger. He's not going to fold worse two pair or combo draws.

I agree it is thin but he is pretty fishy and I don't exactly think it is a draw. I think his range is more likely, K9, Kj, Q10 and maybe A9. It could even be an AQ type hand raising to "see where he is at". I just hate to flat here and have to make a river decision and I think raising here will turn his hand face up on most rivers. It was kind of an awkward spot, should I just call and reevaluate river against this type of fishy player?

I agree my BRM could be slightly more aggressive but BRM is probably my biggest leak so I am trying to really focus on that more and be more disciplined.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Being able to play like this is fun

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 43 BB (VPIP: 80.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 96.4 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 41.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (MP): 173.2 BB
CO: 98.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 98.6 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 12)
SB: 196 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T<font color='red'>♦</font> Q<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) 5<font color='red'>♥</font> 2<font color='red'>♦</font> 4<font color='red'>♦</font>
BB checks, Hero bets 4.2 BB, BB calls 4.2 BB

Turn: (14.8 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='red'>♥</font>
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (14.8 BB, 2 players) 9<font color='red'>♦</font>
BB checks, Hero bets 37.4 BB, BB calls 35.8 BB and is all-in

Villain had A high

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 129.6 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
Hero (BTN): 114.8 BB
SB: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BB: 67.8 BB (VPIP: 78.57, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:spade: 6:spade:

CO calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, fold, BB calls 3.4 BB, CO calls 3.4 BB

Flop: (13.6 BB, 3 players) A:diamond: 4:club: 8:diamond:
BB bets 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Turn: (16.6 BB, 3 players) 5:club:
BB bets 1 BB, CO raises to 9.8 BB, Hero calls 9.8 BB, fold

River: (37.2 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond:
CO checks, Hero bets 18.6 BB, CO calls 18.6 BB

Villain had A3

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 99.6 BB (VPIP: 71.43, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
CO: 103.2 BB (VPIP: 68.75, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
Hero (BTN): 205 BB
SB: 97.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 16)
UTG: 195.6 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:diamond: A:spade:

fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 7.4 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 5.4 BB

Flop: (16.2 BB, 2 players) T:club: Q:heart: K:club:
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (16.2 BB, 2 players) K:heart:
CO raises to 95.8 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 95.8 BB

River: (207.8 BB, 2 players) K:spade:

[spoil]CO shows 7:club: 6:club: (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 42%, Flop 38%, Turn 18%)
Hero shows Q:diamond: A:spade: (Full House, Kings full of Queens)
(Pre 58%, Flop 62%, Turn 82%)
Hero wins 197.6 BB
[/spoil]
 
M

MinhANguyen

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Lmao, don't jinx me man :p

You are right though, 9 buy ins can go pretty bad, I think I should be good with 20 buy ins considering how soft Bovada is. Just need to make sure I follow my BRM course and not sit at 25NL or something.

Haha, I must be a bankroll nit then. I'm at 66 buy-ins for 25NL (started with 20), but still don't want to move to 50NL until I have 40BI, which is 80BI for 25NL. I don't think I could handle the swings with just 20BI. I've had 2 6BI downswings. And recently, I went through a 14BI downswing that I'm getting out of right now. Shot up 12BI in 2 5-hour sessions :). That was such a crazy downswing, and I win at a rate of 8-9bb/100. Runner runner in 3-bet pots or getting 2/3-outered all the time, losing almost every 3-bet pot when I have TPTK or an overpair and get screwed on the river, aces cracked by KK 3 times in a row PF (sick), just running terrible.

It's really easy to get tilted after losing BI after BI, losing consecutive 3-bet pots and, getting sucked out on consecutively with 80/20, 75/25, 70/30, etc. And I play a pretty aggressive postflop game, some bluff-raising and double barreling when I think they're weak or when I pick up equity. I just don't think I'd be comfortable with bluff-raising and double barreling much if I had 20BI, especially with a good amount of calling stations at these stakes. With just one or two bluff-raises or double barrels with 20BI, that's almost 1% of your bankroll.

I think you're a winning player, so why not just jump to 25NL/50NL :). I tried grinding 5NL/10NL like you, but I was like f it. It felt like play money, especially after I started playing 25NL. Used $500 of my financial aid money for college to start at 25NL, and it's been going well for the past month and a half. Almost going to be a 50NL reg :) .

Do you just play 4 cash tables on Bovada? I hate how they don't let us play more than 4 tables, so I do 2 Zone and 2 cash. Cash is just so slow. Zone is a lot lot harder, but I make so much more money there. Being able to hand read, thinly value bet, and bluff-catch fairly well become super important in Zone from what I've seen.

And is Card Catcher worth it? I think I want a HUD for Bovada and need a program to track my stats (PFR, VPIP, 3-bet, etc). Does Card Catcher do that? Hold Em Manager 2 and Pokertracker 4 seem kinda pricey :(. And even if I do buy them, I still need to buy Bovada Hand Converter because they can't convert Bovada hands on their own.

Gl on your grind!
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
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Hmm error on ur behalf not classifying ur hand.. it was a bluff even if u dont agree

What hands are beating me that make it to the turn?

Min, Card Catcher is worth it if you want to discuss hands on forums and be able to review your session that day, or the next morning vs 24 hours later. Sometimes 24 hours later ends up being 48 hours later if you play at like 1am and review is not as good. You do need HEM2 or PT4 in order to use CardCatcher though. You do seem to be a bank roll nit but there is 0 problems with that! I wish I could be more of a nit with it sometimes, my poker bank roll and my life roll. I do play 4 tables and I have been thinking about trying some Zone poker while I am at 5NL just to get some volume in and move up quicker and hell, maybe I'll like it.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Can you post some hands you win big with? I love your posts but am starting to think I play totally different and want to see some hands you get value in.

GL on rebuilding everything!

Step 1, develop an lag image and show a bluff

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 340.6 BB
Hero (UTG): 369.4 BB
MP: 95.6 BB
CO: 129 BB
BTN: 101.2 BB
SB: 136.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9:diamond: T:diamond:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) 5:heart: 3:heart: 2:diamond:
SB bets 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 4 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
SB bets 14 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

River: (45 BB, 2 players) 3:club:
SB bets 26 BB, Hero raises to 66.6 BB, fold

Hero wins 92.2 BB
[/spoil]

3. Put them on tilt by your raises

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 15.6 BB
Hero (BTN): 327.8 BB
SB: 93.8 BB
BB: 177.4 BB
UTG: 50 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 2:diamond: 2:club:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (18.4 BB, 2 players) 5:heart: 4:diamond: 2:heart:
BB bets 11.2 BB, Hero raises to 42.4 BB, BB raises to 168.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 126 BB

Turn: (355.2 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond:

River: (355.2 BB, 2 players) 5:club:

[spoil]Hero shows 2:diamond: 2:club: (Full House, Twos full of Fives)
(Pre 52%, Flop 88%, Turn 91%)
BB shows T:club: A:spade: (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 48%, Flop 12%, Turn 9%)
Hero wins 337.6 BB
[/spoil]

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 97 BB
Hero (BB): 419.4 BB
UTG: 111.4 BB
MP: 195.4 BB
CO: 196.8 BB
BTN: 149.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:spade: A:club:

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11.4 BB, BTN raises to 31.8 BB, Hero calls 20.4 BB

Flop: (64 BB, 2 players) A:heart: 3:club: 6:heart:
Hero checks, BTN bets 34 BB, Hero calls 34 BB

Turn: (132 BB, 2 players) 4:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 83.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 83.6 BB

River: (299.2 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:

[spoil]Hero shows A:spade: A:club: (Three of a Kind, Aces)
(Pre 87%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
BTN shows J:diamond: A:diamond: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 13%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 284.4 BB
[/spoil]

These are my 4 biggest hands so far excluding the bluff. Not much to learn technically but it really high lights how important the meta game can be in poker. ESPECIALLY on Bovada or other anonymous sites, people don't know you. You can be a total lag on one table and a total nit on another and how you play into that image can have a big impact on where and how you get value in hands.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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set of jacks, 9s which definetly in his range.

QT

monster draws are close.

I just feel your getting called when beat, and most people are folding when behind.


..............................................................

Your fundamental flaw is your asking yourself the wrong question.

Ask yourself what hand is calling you that you beat? and that's your answer you really need.
 
Last edited:
IPlay

IPlay

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Oops. I butchered that post, here are the other hands

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 13.4 BB
Hero (MP): 527 BB
CO: 100 BB
BTN: 165.6 BB
SB: 197.4 BB
BB: 112.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts penalty blind 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has K:club: K:diamond:

UTG calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 5.4 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 9.8 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 33.4 BB, SB calls 23.6 BB

Flop: (69.8 BB, 2 players) 4:diamond: 2:heart: 2:spade:
SB bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 72.8 BB, SB raises to 164 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 91.2 BB

Turn: (397.8 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:

River: (397.8 BB, 2 players) T:club:

[spoil]Hero shows K:club: K:diamond: (Two Pair, Kings and Twos)
(Pre 72%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
SB shows A:heart: 7:club: (One Pair, Twos)
(Pre 28%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
Hero wins 378 BB
[/spoil]

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 135.6 BB
BB: 111.2 BB
UTG: 186.4 BB
MP: 105.2 BB
CO: 128.2 BB
BTN: 125 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:spade: A:club:

fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, CO calls 4 BB

Flop: (11 BB, 2 players) A:spade: 5:heart: T:club:
Hero bets 8.4 BB, CO calls 8.4 BB

Turn: (27.8 BB, 2 players) 8:club:
Hero bets 29.2 BB, CO calls 29.2 BB

River: (86.2 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero bets 93 BB and is all-in, CO calls 85.6 BB and is all-in

[spoil]Hero shows J:spade: A:club: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 58%, Flop 82%, Turn 89%)
CO mucks T:diamond: Q:diamond: (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 42%, Flop 18%, Turn 11%)
Hero wins 244.6 BB
[/spoil]

If you notice, none of these hands are standard at all. They were all due to meta game and playing the players and playing my image.
 
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