Moving from 2NL to 5NL - your advise please

CistaCista

CistaCista

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Hey,
since my BR on 2NL is steadily growing I am thinking I might move up within a week or so.

I hear that players on 2NL and 5NL are more or less the same, and I know these types of threads were done befpre, but nevertheless:

In your experience, what is it like to start on 5NL coming from 2NL?

Thanks a bunch!
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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TOUGH.

IMO (and many others) This is the biggest leap in difficulty that you will see.

Firstly because you are leaving behind the guys that have just moved up from Facebook but also because its quite a jump in bet sizes. This will take some getting used to.
 
CistaCista

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Really??
I thought I heard that player skills were not very different on 2NL, 5NL and 10NL.

Re: betsizes I am already getting used to larger stacks as on 2 NL on Stars you can have $5 buyins. Atm I am doing $3 buyins and will so $4 buyns also before moving up. (although the blinds are still just 0.02).
 
tbdbitl

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This is about moving up in stakes in general--not about the stakes mentioned by the OP.

Move up if you have a large enough bankroll to support it! Don't move up just because you think you can move up stakes and make more money. Sometimes if you are crushing the tables at one level you can just add another table at these stakes.

Just keep an eye on the bankroll and don't be too stubborn to move back down in stakes. Your buy-in at higher levels will put you in situations where the losses can be greater than you have seen before.

Good Luck!
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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Well you will likely hear this from guys that have not played microstakes for some time.... or ateast the lower ones!

Yes you are right, atleast there is not a great deal or skill difference between 10NL and 5. But its not just about the differnce in the players you face.

You need to have a LARGE edge over these players to make up for the rake that you pay in order to make a good consistant winrate. This also gives you the psychological advantage you need. When you feel confident and good about the game you are playing, you play well and the beats affect you less.

If you go from merely comfortable beating 2NL (4BB/100) and move up I guarantee that the beats and larger bet sizing will combine and hamper your confidence enough to turn you from a marginal winner into another breakeven frustrated player. It happened to me.... twice.

I played Facebook, then 2NL and then 5NL and am now trying to find my feet at 10.

IMO you shouldnt move up a stake untill you are really destroying the one you are at (5-6BBs over 30k hands)
 
CistaCista

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IMO you shouldnt move up a stake untill you are really destroying the one you are at (5-6BBs over 30k hands)
Aha! I am going to look into where I am at.

To other poster: I am planning to move up when I have 20-25 BI and will move back down if I slip to 10 BI. (=25 BI at 2NL)
 
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fx20736

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Everyone knows my saga. I moved up from 2nl to 5nl for the last time (Hopefully) on Feb 1st. I tried 4 times to move up before that and crashed each time.

The biggest difference between the two stakes is that at 2nl there are soooo many bad players that you can make up for your own mistakes by taking other player's stacks routinely. At 5nl there are fewer of these so when you lose it is harder to recover.

I am now at 30k+ hands at 5nl and am up slightly. Make sure you have at least $ 150 in your roll, don't go crazy shoving single pairs on the flop and learn to fold when you sense you are beat and you should do ok.
 
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Marginal

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I honestly believe you should not really worry about it. People will tell you it is different but the fact is that it is pretty much the same game and the same rules apply
 
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fx20736

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I honestly believe you should not really worry about it. People will tell you it is different but the fact is that it is pretty much the same game and the same rules apply

says the guy who plays PLO not NLHE? and probably for 20x the stakes????
 
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Marginal

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says the guy who plays PLO not NLHE? and probably for 20x the stakes????

I understand how you feel but honestly, you are thinking too much for the level you are playing and overthinking everything. It is a decent enough mentality for when you play higher up but for now, its really simple.

Oh and I started off at the micro NLHE like everyone
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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says the guy who plays PLO not NLHE? and probably for 20x the stakes????

+109!

5NL and 2NL are NOT the same game. They do play similarly but 5NL is FAR, FAR harder to beat for a guy that has just moved up.

Getting so sick of hearing guys at 25-100NL saying they are basically the same. Its almost as if they are taunting us micro guys, sometimes I thinks its just ignorant. So they started out there like the rest of us but how long ago was this? Everyone knows these games get tougher every year as the mean skill level increases. Sure if I was playing 50NL I guess I wouldn't see much difference if I dropped down to low micros for a laugh.

...but that's not really the point is it.
 
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Marginal

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Ok simple question

you are a 14/12 player with like 4.5% 3 bet and won at 4BB/100 at 2nl. You move up. Do you honestly think that people at that level understand enough to adjust to your game and play you differently and hence your winrate drops?

Trust me from someone who has played there and others who have will say the same, the difference is not noticeable and if you play the same style that you did at 2nl, your winrate is not going to drop significantly and I beg to say not at all.
 
CistaCista

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IMO you shouldnt move up a stake untill you are really destroying the one you are at (5-6BBs over 30k hands)
Well according to PTR my winrate is just 3.09 over 50K hands :hmpf: however I am sure that over the past 20K or 30K hands it must be higher.
 

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Marginal

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And if you only move up when you are "destroying" you will never reach up very far unless you are top 3%
 
brank

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As someone who has recently played 2nl and 5nl and onto 10nl I have to say there isnt much diff between them all. The basic principal is that your weaknesses aren't being exploited in these games.

Ya, there are less people in 5nl that will just spew their chips to you or go to the river with gutshots but the way you're winning at 2nl wont be any different then at 5nl. Basic fundamental ABC poker is still the way to win at these games and if you dont have as many spewtards you will have more weaktights and you should be able to win a lot more small pots, which really add up.

EDIT:Basically everyone still sucks one way or the other. The ones that you come across that seem pretty good wont be there long anyways cause they move up.
 
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Marginal

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As someone who has recently played 2nl and 5nl and onto 10nl I have to say there isnt much diff between them all. The basic principal is that your weaknesses aren't being exploited in these games.

Ya, there are less people in 5nl that will just spew their chips to you or go to the river with gutshots but the way you're winning at 2nl wont be any different then at 5nl. Basic fundamental ABC poker is still the way to win at these games and if you dont have as many spewtards you will have more weaktights and you should be able to win a lot more small pots, which really add up.

EDIT:Basically everyone still sucks one way or the other. The ones that you come across that seem pretty good wont be there long anyways cause they move up.

Word?
 
sheesho

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There are less all ins so you have to learn to value bet. 1/2 to 2/3 pot and you'll get 2nd pair to call you. Slow play monsters and you'll get a lot of action. Also, prepare for the bad beats as lots of limp/ callers. I've ran though many bad beats. In this case just raise like 5-6x BB plus 1 a limper I've played like 10k hands and that's my opinion on it.
 
Jagsti

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The fact of he matter is, that the majority of players over adjust when taking shots/moving up. Most players can admit that when moving up, things don;t always go smoothly, its pretty much the same at every level.

But as Mayo said, playing a 14/12 style at 2nl and winning, is pretty much gonna be winning at 5nl by the same rate. You guys need to get a fking grip and understanding of variance quick and stop thinking "oh shit this is level is well tougher".

Fish are fish, they dont play much differently at 2nl, 10nl or even 100nl, theyre fish ffs. It should be intuitive to you all that as you go up, fish become less and there are more regs. So table select and play with more fish, or learn how to beat regs.
 
JOEBOB69

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I don't know it's good to learn about bet sizes at these limits but not needed to win.I had a light bulb moment a few days ago when belgo said that these guys would call off light to 4bets.So i've been tring to get the to call off light in every spot so far it's been working here is about 10k hands i've played this month only a few days playing poker though."I would not call 5or6bb\100 destroying these limits,i wouldn't call my small sample here destroying these limits either."
Edit:What Jag said^
 

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Marginal

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The fact of he matter is, that the majority of players over adjust when taking shots/moving up. Most players can admit that when moving up, things don;t always go smoothly, its pretty much the same at every level.

But as Mayo said, playing a 14/12 style at 2nl and winning, is pretty much gonna be winning at 5nl by the same rate. You guys need to get a fking grip and understanding of variance quick and stop thinking "oh shit this is level is well tougher".

Fish are fish, they dont play much differently at 2nl, 10nl or even 100nl, theyre fish ffs. It should be intuitive to you all that as you go up, fish become less and there are more regs. So table select and play with more fish, or learn how to beat regs.
You know I like sense. And 1 other thing to FX and all you other micro grinders who think because we play 100 - 400$ games we dont understand. Just shut up because how do you think we reached this stage? We played the same stakes you played at some point and we been through the same thing you been through and have learned from that so when we say something like that, we are not blowing smoke up your ass, we have gone and been through it.
 
TylerN

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just by making this thread it almost makes it mental in your head that 5nl is harder when you haven't even tried it. I just moved from 2nl to 5nl 2 weeks ago and if you just play your game you will do fine. /thread
 
pokerman27

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You know I like sense. And 1 other thing to FX and all you other micro grinders who think because we play 100 - 400$ games we dont understand. Just shut up because how do you think we reached this stage? We played the same stakes you played at some point and we been through the same thing you been through and have learned from that so when we say something like that, we are not blowing smoke up your ass, we have gone and been through it.

There's a class war erupting!
 
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Marginal

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We could get along if you dont disregard our advice because "you dont play 5nl"
 
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fx20736

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We could get along if you dont disregard our advice because "you dont play 5nl"

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