Most common bet sizing fails?

bellam

bellam

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Hey there! I've been playing poker casually for 2 years and really wanna step up my game. This is my first post on this site and I want some answers concerning bet and raising sizes.

What are the most common bet size mistakes you see and from which stakes?

Also try to include the board or at least specify what kind of board (dry, flush draws etc)
and conclude why you think it was a mistake.
 
elton015

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Hey there! I've been playing poker casually for 2 years and really wanna step up my game. This is my first post on this site and I want some answers concerning bet and raising sizes.

What are the most common bet size mistakes you see and from which stakes?

Also try to include the board or at least specify what kind of board (dry, flush draws etc)
and conclude why you think it was a mistake.
I think that raising too much in a pot with 200chips for example and you bet 400 is disproportionate and the others players on the table can percieve that this maight be a bluffing , me for example if the pot has 200 chips I bet 100 or 120 just to attract more chips and increase the pot.
 
bellam

bellam

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I think that raising too much in a pot with 200chips for example and you bet 400 is disproportionate and the others players on the table can percieve that this maight be a bluffing , me for example if the pot has 200 chips I bet 100 or 120 just to attract more chips and increase the pot.

That is true, but in wet boards with flush and straight draws lurking, a large bet often gets called.

If we're talking about dry boards where only a top pair, two pair or a set would have the upperhand, then you're absolutely right.
 
Lorpugo

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the good bet size must give bad odds for your opponent for his draws and also proportionat to pot in this way that you have half pot bet for allin on the river. Google fo ggop bet sizing to see it is based on GTO theory
 
Lorpugo

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not half but exactly one pot bet at the river to extract the maximum from your hand
 
Lorpugo

Lorpugo

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also based on gto theres block bet which is 1/3 or 1/4 of the pot, google for it too
 
bellam

bellam

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the good bet size must give bad odds for your opponent for his draws and also proportionat to pot in this way that you have half pot bet for allin on the river. Google fo ggop bet sizing to see it is based on GTO theory

I've googled the term and have found it interesting. The only problem is that the few sites where this is discussed there is no real explanation except for people discussing advanced mathematics. Could you explain how the math process goes on?
 
blueskies

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I see guys just throwing min bets in there. I don't really know if they are "bluffing" or trying to inflate the pot in case they hit something.

It's just a dumb way to give away coins.

Shoving when you have a big hand is actually not terrible. I've made calls thinking villain must be bluffing but they actually aren't. Like if the board is 993 and they have a 9, they open shove. With something like JJ I call usually.
 
playinggameswithu

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Raising 3x in a tournament with a strong hand but the tournament is deepstacked so implied odds means lik 54% of hands can profitably call you also the chips of the top of your stack are worthless almost.
 
Stuey

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Hey there! I've been playing poker casually for 2 years and really wanna step up my game. ..

You can use Google to become a poker expert. All the information you need is there. The only thing is that the important stuff is missing from the public domain. ...., ha ha ha LOL ... Good Luck!
 
duggs

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Raising 3x in a tournament with a strong hand but the tournament is deepstacked so implied odds means lik 54% of hands can profitably call you also the chips of the top of your stack are worthless almost.

54% of hands can absolutely not call a 3x open profitably, where did you get that idea from?

to OP, people bet too small when they have a range advantage, and bet too often when they dont.
 
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Yup, sounds about right but what I want to add is that some people have strong hands and bet larger that the pot to attract action play and at times it works. I seen many situations where a small pot escalates to becoming an all in
 
playinggameswithu

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54% of hands can absolutely not call a 3x open profitably, where did you get that idea from?

to OP, people bet too small when they have a range advantage, and bet too often when they dont.

You are in a deepstacked 10,000 chips tournament, blindes 15/30....villain raises to 90 chips. You can call with about 54% of hands profitably since their stack is at risk in NLH.
 
duggs

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You are in a deepstacked 10,000 chips tournament, blindes 15/30....villain raises to 90 chips. You can call with about 54% of hands profitably since their stack is at risk in NLH.

no you cant. if you call with 54% of hands you are at an equity disadvantage at every singe street on every single board.
 
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triplstacker

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Bet sizing is a way to improve your edge by making the pot unattractive for someone who's behind and drawing.
 
playinggameswithu

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no you cant. if you call with 54% of hands you are at an equity disadvantage at every singe street on every single board.

I'd stay away from reverse implied odds hands A2,23s,K7o,J50,104o,Q7o,54,89o, etc.

Not really, but when you do it a hand your hand gets paid off on speculative play worth a 60 chip call.I mean it is 60 chips to possible get 9,960 how many times must that happen to pay off the raise preflop call.Also the chips off the top are borderline worthless.Id call with 86o even if they showed me AK,even aces.You hit 2 pair 1-49 get their stack.
 
duggs

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I'd stay away from reverse implied odds hands A2,23s,K7o,J50,104o,Q7o,54,89o, etc.

Not really, but when you do it a hand your hand gets paid off on speculative play worth a 60 chip call.I mean it is 60 chips to possible get 9,960 how many times must that happen to pay off the raise preflop call.Also the chips off the top are borderline worthless.Id call with 86o even if they showed me AK,even aces.You hit 2 pair 1-49 get their stack.

except noone that isnt brain dead is stacking AA in 350bb single raise pot.....
 
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As an example I posted here on another thread about a hand where hero called out of the BB against an UTG 3x raise.

The board came K 6 6r and he tried to rep the 6 after calling the flop

the thing being that he bet so small on the turn and river that he gave his opponent the right price for a +EV call down. SO even if his opponent was wrong in this particular instance he would be right enough of the time to do it all the time and still make money ( It just so happend that Hero was bluffing in the spot so he was right either way)

My point being its a move you would want to make when you actually have a 6 and not one you would want to use if you don't. So as a very very very general rule you want to bluff big when you bluff and value as high as you can given villain suspected range/behavior without going over.
 
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need to take notes and start documenting if you play frequently with the same players and what crazy bet sizing they did
 
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People overbet too much when they have a monster. Often their thinking is "OMGZ HE'S GONNA THINK IT LOOKS LIKE A BLUFF". Most conservative players and weak tight player that make up most of live 1/2 and less so at micro cash are not going to hero call as often as you think.
These overbet are often lulzy and turn your hand face up which is a strategic disaster since the more information your opponents have on you the smaller your winrate.
In my last two months online and live I have I used a lot of value betting with strong hands with a shoving frequency that may seem low compared to the average reg, and I have been paid off massively. It's hard for me to remember when I didn't get three streets of value or some equivalent with huge hands. It beats the he'll out of overbetting top set on the turn and getting an Insta fold. In fact some of my biggest regrets have been putting in some big bets and not getting paid off in some spots.
Another benefit of the value bet is getting to show down a huge hand. If you can show down strong holdings it can help your bluffs get thru, it helps with the "he always has it" reputation.
 
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