Min/Small bet vs Regular C-bet (discussion)

bob_tiger

bob_tiger

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Ever have one of those moments when something pops up into your head and you feel like you are a genius? well I just did while taking a shower lol. You here a lot of people talking about how you should change it up, to confuse people, well I think I just thought of something that can be very effective. I don't think many people ever do this, but I want to share this with everyone and I want your thoughts on this.

Ok here is what I came up with, Well everybody knows that Minimum bet usually means really weak or really strong, right? I'm just going to use cash games as an example for this, I don't know if this move can/should be used in tourneys. Ok, well if you are constantly C-betting/firing away with your strong hands and your opponents realize that, what do you think they will think when you make a really tiny bet? exactly, they will think you are either really weak or trying to make a blocking bet.

Ok let me write a hand for an example and show how this move could work, lets say you are dealt AsAh in early position and lets say you are playing 100nl, you make your usual 3.50/4 or w/e it is raise, and a really tight player from late position re raises you, so now instead of telling him that you are really strong and re raising him you call, and lets say we know his range is somewhere between 9s to Ks. Ok let's say flop is Ad 5d 8h
we have hit the top set/best hand possible right now and we are pretty sure the villain hasn't improved his hand, well we know if we check, he will probably end up checking behind or maybe make a small bet, if raise that looks strong and probably get him to fold, so lets say he checks behind, and turn is another 5 for example, still no improvent for him, and here we are thinking, we got to get some $ out of this hand, we have to bet, so lets say we do bet, villain will probably fold right? and we don't make that much out of the hand.

Ok now let's play the hand a little different by using the move I though of which imo could be very profitable if used correctly, Ok you get AsAh early position raise to 3.50, villain from late position re raises to 12, you call. Flop comes Ad 5d 8h, so now the pot is 16$ ( if everyone folded that is) So instead of making your usual 9-12$ bet, I think we should make a small bet something like 6-7$ or something like that, now what does the other player think you are doing? if the other player is a high level thinker, he might think that you have a flush draw or a weak hand and you are trying to make a weak blocking bet, right? so he might re raise you to something like 20-24$, so now my thoughts are we shouldn't insta call but we shouldn't take to much time, so let's say we call, turn is that 5, now I think we should check, the other player is thinking well looks like he is weak, and might bet another 25-30ish$ bet, now instead of winning few $, we got him to commit half of his stack, when we have the nuts, (that's if he don't have 55, which isn't in his range) so now I'm thinking we should go all in, since many players tend to go all in on draws, I think the villain might even call, if he folds, well then good for us, we got half of his stack and he didn't even get to see our cards, but I think curiousity kills most players.

Ok so I think this play good work, a good way to change things up to confuse everybody, I mean I wouldn't do it too often but it can be very effective. what are everyone's thoughts on this? Should we make a min bet/ or is making a 5-7$ bet would be better there? ( I think min bet just doesn't look right) Also if he does re raise, should we call fairly quick, should we insta call or call slowly? And on the turn lets say villain does bet after we check, should we shove, or should we call and value bet the river? Anything that should be added that would make this play better? Let me know, I think some cash experts might find this interesting, idk.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I believe the phrase you are looking for is "betting to induce a raise".
 
Dwilius

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I think this is already used. Players don't want to cbet too big and lose a costumer. A check means you have to check/raise later to build any type of pot and that looks too strong. The worst is when they've hit the flop too and by playing weak now the villain doesn't want to lose you.
I think its a somewhat well known move also, so occasionally I like to make a suspiciously small cbet (where I usually check or standard cbet) when I have absolutely nothing. I think some players would call the larger cbet as often as the smaller so it can be cheaper to try to take down a pot.
 
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gns2003

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I definitely think this play, used as a "mix-it-up" type play can be very profitable. I see too many people push too hard with such a strong hand. I think you would get enough extra money on this move over time as long as its not your main play. Thanks.
 
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mimi

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One of my friends that I play regularly with said that Mike Caro had written an article recently on slow playing pocket aces to make more money. I haven't personally seen the article, but your play sounds similar to what she described as his strategy. You have to be careful with that, though, because ever since she started employing that tactic, she has had her aces cracked more often than not. As you said, if he had pocket 5s you really could get stung thinking that your hand was still best when you were beat on fourth street.
 
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teksmith

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I prefer not to slow play AA unless it just two of us in the hand. So you do need to raise enough on the flop to whittle down the competition.
 
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viking999

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I'm not thoroughly convinced that high level thinkers will raise KK-99 on that flop versus an underbet. It could get him to call and then bet if you check the turn. It can be profitable, but I think it's extraordinarily rare that the best case scenario you describe occurs.

Sometimes I think KK will fold even to an underbet on the flop but if you check it down and then bet river he will call your "bluff". Also, you may be missing out on some monster wins when you let him hit his disasterous two outer.

I can't really say for sure if it's better or worse than a normal sized bet or checking. It depends so much on psychology that I don't think you can really ever convince someone that one way is best. If I did do this play, I'd probably also start underbetting middle/bottom pairs and draws.
 
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