Min-bet at 2nl

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Tricky123bet

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Just played a in a pokerstars 2nl cash game, with a player I had noted as a fish, and he did some really confusing things.
The fish limps somewhere in middle position, I raise to 4x the big blind with 1010, both BB and the fish calls. (I should also include that this fish had VPIP/PFR stats 33/6, in something like 20-30 hands I think)

Flop comes K83 rainbow. Pot is 24c.
BB checks, and now the fish mini-raises to 2c.
I decide to raise to 12c to isolate against the fish (BB seems to be a pretty solid player) and the fish calls. I also think the fish had something like AQ or AJ or something that missed, that he just decides to throw out a random bet.

The turn is a 6. Pot is 48c.
The fish checks and I bet a little over half the pot, and then he raises me all-in.
(I don't remember exactly but I think effective stacks was something like 90 bb) I tank for a while and finally fold.

In hindsight it feels like I should have checked back the turn, not really any reason to bet there, but this post isn't about you giving me opinions about how I played my hand (in that case I would have put it in Cash Game hand analysis).

I wanna know what you think that mini-raise means.
I have seen it quite often in these games, but what does it signify?
Does mini-raises mean they have a decent hand, or is it just most often a random bet that doesn't really mean anything? What have you seen people show up with at the river, when they have made a minimum bet on a previous street? What do you think Villain could have had in this spot?
 
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kozong

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i see it as 2pairs
he have 8/3 on flop (not K or he would bet bigger)

or its a set of 6

folding is the right thing to do there, that 3b shove is ridiculous :D
 
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prep04

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For your typical fish, min bets tend to mean one of two things.

1) Fish has a big hand, and is dying for someone to raise them.
2) Fish is on a draw, and is hoping to get to the turn cheap.
 
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marcumx

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most ppl i talk to hates min betting but i love it one for the reason stated above..if i know i can't get beat, i'm dying for a raise. it's also cheap to see where you and every one stands, if you get calls, they're either drawing or have a piece of the board and if you get raised you can easily fold if you misssed. i must add i only do this on the flop.
 
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Tricky123bet

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Partly agree with you studaddy420, there may be few arguments for betting small, but min-betting imo is just the same as checking, others can pretty much call with almost any two cards, and you get no further information.
It adds some trickiness to it tho, I get confused alot myself when facing min-bets and I have a marginal hand, with no read on the situation. I also have seen lots of fish actually fold pretty frequently to min-bets, even though they get 10 to 1 or more for a call.
Nothing I will implement into my game though, I have read it's gonna be -EV over the long run to bet that small.
Nonetheless, thanks for your reply and play well at the tables :)
 
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Dan Lucas

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How about looking at it this way. Let's say that this opponent had a hand like pocket 3's, and doesn't want to inflate the pot, but is willing to call a raise and set mine. You raise and he calls, either not caring what you have, or thinking you might have a hand like AK. The flop comes, and he's hoping you have AK and will bet, so he can min bet and then just calls so he doesn't scare you off. On the turn, he probably thinks you are pot committed so shoves, thinking you will call with top pair, top kicker on a dry board. He might also think you have AA, and is hoping you will never fold on that board. I have seen that many times on the 2nl cash tables.
 
Ian the Fish

Ian the Fish

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He most likely had a set of either 8s or 3s. He definitely did not have a set of kings (or even AK for that matter) - those hands would have 3-bet you pre.

He is putting out that minbet, looking to get raised + making it really tough to fold, since he is giving you that price.

As you called, he probably thinks that you have that king (your preflop raise + flat call on the flop strongly represents a king / high pocket pair, like QQ), in which case the raise is definitely for value.

Since I just grinded my way through NL2, I can say with certainty that 99% of these check raises all-in are for value, and are not bluffs.

In short, had you raised him on the flop, he would have 3-bet you (most likely all-in).

He is a fish, simply because he got too excited after hitting that set and didn't know, how to extract the most value out of you.
 
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Pokagambler

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So he shoves you all his stack for 46 cents and you still wonder what he has?who cares.I won't feed the fishes.maybe he had two pair maybe he had a set of kings maybe he hit his set on the turn maybe he had ace king maybe he bluffed you.who cares.wait till you hit big and let him bluff you again.you raise with tens and fish calls you with 92 off and he hits his two pair and you are supposed to reward him.even if he bluffs you its good to show that you are easily bluffed cause he is going to try it again and that time you'll have him beaten seating comfortably on your flush or str8. As a matter of fact I would show him my tens.If he bluffed me I want him to try it again.If he didn't bluff me next time he hits on me he is going to play it soft so that he won't miss his opportunity for a second time.If i manage to outdraw him then he will pay me good time when I shove on the river.Getting paid is what matters in poker not bluffing in the best way.let him bluff you while you grab his cash.My personal opinion?he had aces or kings and had you beaten.
 
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Pokagambler

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-- Not to mention the fact that you missed your big chance?what if he actually had a small pair and he hit his trips on the flop.Now he bets 2c.How do you know you have him beaten?you don't.call the 2 cents and draw for a ten.If you hit your ten you have him stacked.he out-draw you?who cares.you bet a little he raises big you know you are beaten and you fold.but if you do hit a ten you get too much for 2 cents only.I mean think about it.even if he is in front on the flop you get to see a card for only 2 cents,out draw him and make him pay a lot.
 
atlantafalcons0

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A min "bet" from these stakes usually means the fish has a good hand and wants to keep you putting money in until the river. Then, usually they shove the river.

It's best to just call these bets and try to improve.
 
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braveslice

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For your typical fish, min bets tend to mean one of two things.

1) Fish has a big hand, and is dying for someone to raise them.
2) Fish is on a draw, and is hoping to get to the turn cheap.

This, given there can't really be draws we go with 1) and just call and see what happens

We could name also 3rd category, where action is quite the same than 2):
3) Fish has TPBK // 2ndP // Any pocket pair

Usually with 3) he continues small bets 3 streets
 
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Michel_11

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For your typical fish, min bets tend to mean one of two things.

1) Fish has a big hand, and is dying for someone to raise them.
2) Fish is on a draw, and is hoping to get to the turn cheap.
3) Fish hits the middle pair or bottom pair
4) Fish has a small pocket pair
5) Fish knows that often beginners use alternative 1: Fish has a big hand, and is dying for someone to raise Them. Knowing this, bet mini on flop and bet pot on the turn with nothing, air, and take the pot from home, and now you're the fish :D:D:D
 
MattRyder

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A min-bet usually means a made hand, but a weak one - say top pair with weak kicker and no realistic draw, bottom or middle pair.
 
TheMagic

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Usually the mini-raise from a fish/donkey player represents nothing, only air. But you´ll see too, low pairs, like the 33 or the middle ones (88).

And be careful, it´s not unusual they bet pot in the turn, and in the river, they shove, especially when they hit the nuts with their air hands.
 
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braveslice

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Only air never. Literally never, not once in 300k hands.
 
Sil3ntness

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Just call on the flop. I feel like you're burning money in a three way pot with a donking fish. Pocket Ts on a K83r isn't the nuts... and DEFINITELY don't fire a second barrel on the turn.
---

As played: there's no mystery you have to fold to turn shove.
 
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Tricky123bet

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3) Fish hits the middle pair or bottom pair
4) Fish has a small pocket pair
5) Fish knows that often beginners use alternative 1: Fish has a big hand, and is dying for someone to raise Them. Knowing this, bet mini on flop and bet pot on the turn with nothing, air, and take the pot from home, and now you're the fish :D:D:D

But in that case he's not a fish anymore. A fish DOESN'T THINK about what I'm holding, let alone what his perceived range is. And I was pretty sure he was a fish since he had a silly name and did a lot of limping preflop (not something you will see amongst most regs)
 
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karl coakley

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I agree with the posts saying it is a draw or something like mid-bottom pair. Usually this freezes other fish and they just call the bet rather than put out a bigger bet.
 
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bmac927

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could be something as simple as ace king....
 
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lw124

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--Not to say you missed a big opportunity? If he does have a little and he hit his trip failed. Now he bets 2 c. How do you know you have to play him? You t.call 2 cents, paintings for 110. If you hit you you he stacked.He appealing to you? Who cares.you bet he raised you know you are beaten, you fold. but if you call 110 you have too much of just 2 cents. I would like it if you see a card in front of him only 2 cents of triggers, draw him, let him pay a lot.
 
Aces2w1n

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2 reasons why people minbet.

testing the waters
or they have a monster
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Generally from weak players a min bet means, most likely first

1) Draw
2) Second pair
3) The nuts (or what they think is the nuts). If they min then 3bet its almost always the case.

Always consider the following

The players - herein referred to as fish - at the micro limits make mistakes almost every time they're given the choice to do something. As long as you play solid fundamental poker, they hang themselves. There's no need to be fancy whatsoever. All you do is keep making the right choices (like betting when you flop trips) based on the situation and they'll continue to make the wrong choices (like call a 3/4 pot turn bet hoping for 4 outs).

In fact the fish only have one advantage over you: they're unpredictable. Most of their actions have no logic behind them and you will often be stupefied by what they do. You can't outplay someone if they aren't playing the same game you are. Thus the only option you have is to play solid fundamental poker and be patient. Eventually you win, and they lose"
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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On the hand above I think they have K6 or 86.
 
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frankcet4400

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Just played a in a Pokerstars 2nl cash game, with a player I had noted as a fish, and he did some really confusing things.
The fish limps somewhere in middle position, I raise to 4x the big blind with 1010, both BB and the fish calls. (I should also include that this fish had VPIP/PFR stats 33/6, in something like 20-30 hands I think)

Flop comes K83 rainbow. Pot is 24c.
BB checks, and now the fish mini-raises to 2c.
I decide to raise to 12c to isolate against the fish (BB seems to be a pretty solid player) and the fish calls. I also think the fish had something like AQ or AJ or something that missed, that he just decides to throw out a random bet.

The turn is a 6. Pot is 48c.
The fish checks and I bet a little over half the pot, and then he raises me all-in.
(I don't remember exactly but I think effective stacks was something like 90 bb) I tank for a while and finally fold.

In hindsight it feels like I should have checked back the turn, not really any reason to bet there, but this post isn't about you giving me opinions about how I played my hand (in that case I would have put it in Cash Game hand analysis).

I wanna know what you think that mini-raise means.
I have seen it quite often in these games, but what does it signify?
Does mini-raises mean they have a decent hand, or is it just most often a random bet that doesn't really mean anything? What have you seen people show up with at the river, when they have made a minimum bet on a previous street? What do you think Villain could have had in this spot?

when you have enough information of a player you can 3bet increases as you know the profile of the villain greetings
 
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