Middle/bottom pair

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NateB

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Earlier I made a post about suited connectors and gappers and got some good advice. This is a spin off off the original. I Mainly play 1-2 live and for the most part eveybody tries to limp. Somebody will raise to 12 dollars and get 1 or 2 callers. I've been trying to incorporate SC and gappers into my line up. Last night I flopped middle pair, made a c-bet and got reraised. I don't want the image that I will always fold to a reraise so what's yours opinion on how to go about that. I called the reraise and ended up mucking the turn due to bad price. But I ended up losing 40-50 bucks.
 
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Weisssound

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Change your mindset. Just because you fold to a raise doesn't make you a pussy. Not in reality, not in the eyes of the people at the table. There are times you want to fold top pair top kicker, two pair, sets, straights, flushes etc if you are raised. It's more about your read on the situation and in multi-way pots people are just lusting for that check-raise on the flop. That's their "big move", hit two pair and check-raise.

Now, one great thing about live is that if someone targets you as a passive player they'll probably give you a number of signs. Slight posturing, betting patters, your instincts will tell you this person is seeing you as passive. That's very exploitable.

Live can be tricky simply because you'll be in more multi-way pots. My basic advice - better to be in position with shit cards than out of position with good cards if you're going against two or more players. Save those 1-Gaps and SCs for you overlimps and light 3 bets in position. Send em' to the muck in EP.
 
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NateB

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How would you recognize if somebody is trying to put you in a passive style and how would they exploit that? Also how could you counter that? Over limp when everybody limps?
 
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Weisssound

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The meta-game trap is to first: confirm their belief. Fold in marginal spots against other opponents at the table. Maybe even do something to call attention to the fact that you "have something" and are folding anyway because you are so timid.

As for the tells: players who see you as passive will start to make physical indicators that you are "their prey". The physical posturing for this is probably one of the most common and obvious tells you'll run into. They will face their torso and often times arm movements toward you. If you feel you are being "subtly intimidated" that's exactly what they are doing - sometimes consciously sometimes not.

Here's how it's exploitable: they aren't expecting you to switch gears. If they see you making folds against some players, they'll expect you to fold to them. Here you can start to play back at them. Since they see you as a passive player if you become aggressive they'll give you credit. Look for wet boards to make plays. If you have a value hand, let them try to push you around.

The hardest part is being able to call bluffs with marginal hands. If you can piece together the picture of what your villain is doing you'll catch them trying to push you out of pots. You don't HAVE to do this. You can hold Ace high and still fold when you are fairly sure you are being bluffed. But, a lot of value comes from getting comfortable objectively navigating those situations.
 
rawbad

rawbad

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not really a bad call you just got caught when reraised I usually stay in and hope to improve hand
 
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Weisssound

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And how does that usually work out? Because you need about 8:1 to try to turn a two-pair hand, and there's a substantial number of times where you're going to be beat anyway. And honestly, if you're getting better than 4:1 on a call chances are you are CRUSHED, like drawing 10% or worse over two streets.

Middle pair, multi-way, if someone starts showing aggression, just ditch it. FIND A BETTER SPOT.
 
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GreatLeslie

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I know how you feel but don't try and feel bullied by a player. You just got stuck in a spot where your opponent was probably better than you, but only you know if his range hit the flop or not.

Calling a a re-raise with middle pair depends on a lot of factors in my opinion. If you had cbet your last 3/5 hands then your opponent may have thought you have been bluffing, and then he tried to re-raise to see if you were and you can easily call most of the time.
 
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