Microstakes: The donk min-bet

I've been having this problem quite a lot in the last two days and I honestly don't know how to beat it. Almost every time someone donk min-bets I have made a large isolation raise or 3bet pre flop and don't want to look weak or give up on aggression.

pokerstars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2)
SB ($1.50)
BB ($1.30)
UTG ($0.99)
UTG+1 ($1.77)
MP1 ($0.95)
Hero (MP2) ($2.09)
MP3 ($2)
CO ($1.74)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 10 , 10
UTG bets $0.04, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 1 fold, CO calls $0.12, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.39) 3 , 5 , A (3 players)
UTG bets $0.02, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.79) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.38, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.79 | Rake: $0.03


In this case I have to believe he has the flush, but there are numerous other situations where the board is dry and I have no clue what to do. This happened to be on Zoom so no player info but all the other times it has been at the normal tables.

From the amount of times I have made a large raise just to have players call off is it right to assume whenever this type of player does this they either have a weak top pair that they wont fold or a draw they are willing to go the whole way with?

And if the above assumption is correct what is the correct line when we have less than TPGK?

TyrannicalRaest said:

and don't want to look weak or give up on aggression.

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Big leak

In this case I have to believe he has the flush,

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Or, just the A

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that is a wet board, flush, straight draws...and an ace

AlfieAA said:

that is a wet board, flush, straight draws...and an ace

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So...Fold?

Looking back the flop raise was pointless due to size, should have made it 30 minimum I guess.

To JusSumguy:

What point betting an ace on the turn, other than maybe the ace with the Qh?


All in all could someone suggest a better way to play in these situation?

I think raising that min bet was ok, but with the A and the flush & straight draws on the flop, maybe calling and folding to any turn action might be better. Yes you might have the best hand on that flop, but your in trouble if that guy puts any more than a min bet into that pot. The best you could hope for would be a naked flush draw. Every other hand that will put much in has you crushed: 2p, sets, combo draws and any ace.

That's a fold without reads IMO. It's a FD or a weak TP and it's hard to play against.

Treat min donk bets like checks. So when it's your turn to act in that hand, pretend he never bet. Then think to yourself would I really bet here? Obv if he checks that flop to you, you should be checking TT back

I think if someone takes this action against me from now on I'll view it as a declaration that they are willing to go the whole way with their hand. Plan is now to get to showdown cheap, get value from my monster hands and just fold otherwise.

Thanks for the input everyone

T, I've had the same issue over and over, the stupid donk min bet, follow it up with a raise from me, and then they just call? Really just a call (W/E)...On the turn they once again donk min bet, and then that puts me to an odd decision (either call, or raise knowing they will call any raise I do), If I raise (hoping they fold, but leaning more towards them calling then that makes no sense at all to raise), If I call knowing that this will let them know (I'm afraid of the ace, then I also must be willing to call a river bet)...The problem is that in the 2nd option once I elect to flat on the flop+turn min donk bet, that on the river they usually just blast hard on it (and because I chose a weakish road on the flop+turn, I will not know where I stand come river over bet)...

The best solution I find is to do 2 things, either raise as you did do so (yet not so much, something down the lines of .10), if that gets called, and depending on the turn card, their bet size wont be as much), if not just call down the .02 on the flop+turn and let it go if on the river it's way too much to call..

As for the hand it was a good fold both ways, and you took a stab at it and it didn't work out so (off to the next 1)

TyrannicalRaest said:

I think if someone takes this action against me from now on I'll view it as a declaration that they are willing to go the whole way with their hand. Plan is now to get to showdown cheap, get value from my monster hands and just fold otherwise.

Thanks for the input everyone

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Its really not, what JC said is true, if he min donks, treat it like he checked and do what you would have done anyways, in this case the boards wet as shit so you'd check it back anyways, but if the board came down say J62r, a min donk is often a 6 or 77-TT, so if we have say QK or something we can just go ahead and raise it and OFTEN get folds. This is rarely someone saying they will go all the way with their hand lol, on boards like this maybe because he can hit it with all sorts, but on dry boards its usually some bottom or mid pair that doesnt know what to do, but has maybe heard that betting is better than calling or something i guess.

orangepeeleo said:

Its really not, what JC said is true, if he min donks, treat it like he checked and do what you would have done anyways, in this case the boards wet as shit so you'd check it back anyways, but if the board came down say J62r, a min donk is often a 6 or 77-TT, so if we have say QK or something we can just go ahead and raise it and OFTEN get folds. This is rarely someone saying they will go all the way with their hand lol, on boards like this maybe because he can hit it with all sorts, but on dry boards its usually some bottom or mid pair that doesnt know what to do, but has maybe heard that betting is better than calling or something i guess.

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I don't normally get donk min-bet into on dry boards, if the board is dry they usually go 50-75% of the pot, in which case I'll call top pair and other made hands while making a medium sized raise with my overcards etc.

I get where you are coming from and know too well that a donk bet on boards with say 2 low cards 1 high card is normally a PP that decides to take a shot. I don't find that they make the donk bet min-sized.

I think I played this correctly:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($4.96)
BB ($0.84)
UTG ($2.57)
UTG+1 ($7.50)
MP1 ($2.72)
MP2 ($1.80)
MP3 ($2.08)
Hero (CO) ($2.13)
Button ($3.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J , K
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Hero bets $0.12, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.39) 8 , A , J (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.39) 10 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, UTG raises to $0.10, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.45 | Rake: $0.02

Your thoughts?

^ again, without stats this is hard. But IMO you didn't.

Checking back flop is correct (although you have MPTK so I feel like everyone else has a worse mid pair or a draw at best, so Id bet, but small), but flatting the min donk OTT isn't. I think you should raise the turn to like 28c ish (closer to pot if you had More of a hand)

Sorry, UTG stats were about 67/9 and 0.9 post flop aggro, UTG +1 had 35/2 with post flop aggro of 1.0. I understand that may skewer what you said in the above post because I didn't provide stats beforehand. These stats might not be spot on but I had 60 hands or so at the table so they should be reasonably accurate.

So if they are unknown you suggest a turn raise...with the stats in mind (sorry for forgetting to post them above) is raising still a viable choice?

UTG +1 is the guy we flatted, and so we don't know what UTG would do when we pick our action. Being second to act, I don't think UTG +1 eer has a hand here, and we have no reason to suspect UTG does. So ye, I'm still raising.

Remember my previous post. Pretend his min donk isn't a bet and treat it like a check. So if he checked to you OTT, would you bet? I think you would, and that it'd be something like 28c

Yeah between the range of 26-32. I'll try look at donk min-bets this way from now on. One last thought, if we make the raise and UTG calls, with UTG+1 folding, Do we double barrel?

If flop checks though, we raise to or bet ~28c OTT and get called and river bricks then no. unless we improve OTR we shouldnt bet.

Here's why. Name 3 worse hands that will check call you. If you can't do it, don't bet

Unless we improve OTR, I can't really see villain havig worse hands that'll call a river bet, since his entire range is going to be fair weak or TPNK hands that he doesn't fold cos he's a noob

JCgrind said:

That's a fold without reads IMO. It's a FD or a weak TP and it's hard to play against.

Treat min donk bets like checks. So when it's your turn to act in that hand, pretend he never bet. Then think to yourself would I really bet here? Obv if he checks that flop to you, you should be checking TT back

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This 100%. Its ok to let them take some pots with the min-donk. Just like when they check its ok to check back sometimes.

Yuck, I hate the way you played that. Why are you worried about looking weak? Do you think he's going to make a note on you in a Zoom game? Call the crappy $.02 bet and fold the turn. He has an Ace, it's that simple.