Microstakes: 3/4 of my biggest losing hands are AKs, AKo, AQo

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Jreece18

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Not entirely sure what I do as I feel as though I fold them if I don't make a hand, but any general tips on playing premiums?
 
Beanfacekilla

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This is such a broad question, but I will attempt to give you some answers.


Poker fundamentals must be the foundation of your play. Position is probably the biggest advantage we have at a poker table. It is so important, it can be very difficult to play even premiums out of position. I am not saying to fold AK up front, but proceed with caution after the flop.

Another thing to consider is the number of villains seeing the flop with you. We should never c-bet bluff more than 2 opponents (heads up is always ideal). That being said, c-bet bluffing is the key to winning in spot where you missed the flop (somewhat).

However, if you just give up every time you miss the flop, you are exploitable. I would suggest reading some poker books. Try and learn about c-bet bluffing, semi bluffing, and when to check.


Dry boards are best to c-bet bluff. There are less combos that will have equity to proceed.


A board like 7-8-9 two spades (when you have hearts) is a terrible board to c-bet bluff.

However, a board of Q-7-2 rainbow (you have AK) is a better board to bluff at. The number of hands opponent could have that connect with this board is minimal. And if he does call, his range is smallish. Some villains peel with any pair, any piece of the flop. Others will only continue with TP or better. Know your villains. Don't try barreling against calling stations. They will just call, that's what they do.


This is just scratching the surface. There is so much stuff involved with how to play premiums, you really need to read some books, watch instructional videos, join a training site, etc. There are many ways for you to learn and improve.


I don't know what your current skill level is. One of the first books I read was NL Texas Holdem for Dummies. It was very very educational. It taught me the fundamentals of the game.


Study theory. Read books more than once. Practice. Repeat.
 
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Jreece18

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This is such a broad question, but I will attempt to give you some answers.


Poker fundamentals must be the foundation of your play. Position is probably the biggest advantage we have at a poker table. It is so important, it can be very difficult to play even premiums out of position. I am not saying to fold AK up front, but proceed with caution after the flop.

Another thing to consider is the number of villains seeing the flop with you. We should never c-bet bluff more than 2 opponents (heads up is always ideal). That being said, c-bet bluffing is the key to winning in spot where you missed the flop (somewhat).

However, if you just give up every time you miss the flop, you are exploitable. I would suggest reading some poker books. Try and learn about c-bet bluffing, semi bluffing, and when to check.


Dry boards are best to c-bet bluff. There are less combos that will have equity to proceed.


A board like 7-8-9 two spades (when you have hearts) is a terrible board to c-bet bluff.

However, a board of Q-7-2 rainbow (you have AK) is a better board to bluff at. The number of hands opponent could have that connect with this board is minimal. And if he does call, his range is smallish. Some villains peel with any pair, any piece of the flop. Others will only continue with TP or better. Know your villains. Don't try barreling against calling stations. They will just call, that's what they do.


This is just scratching the surface. There is so much stuff involved with how to play premiums, you really need to read some books, watch instructional videos, join a training site, etc. There are many ways for you to learn and improve.


I don't know what your current skill level is. One of the first books I read was NL Texas Holdem for Dummies. It was very very educational. It taught me the fundamentals of the game.


Study theory. Read books more than once. Practice. Repeat.

Thanks for the tips, so far I've not actually read a single poker book, just articles and education videos. I've been playing for a while but still consider myself a poor player - winning 2nl at 6bb/100 but cant beat 5nl at all... More theory then I guess
 
Aces2w1n

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What sample size?? Because if ur not winning with those hands you cant be winning overall unless some kind of heater

Watch some of pokerbanks concepts on youtube prolly bit too advanced but there should basic concepts.

Learn your odds
Player styles
Power of position
Cbets
Flop textures
Way ahead way behind
Value and bluff
Hand classifications
Hand ranges


That is some random stuff to readup on .. some more advanced. I just woke up so cant think properly yet but that came to mind
 
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Are you 3betting with those hands? You're not limping into the pot, are you? How many times do you go to showdown and how many times do you win the pot at showdown?

This sounds like a bet sizing and aggression problem
 
Dorugremon

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Not entirely sure what I do as I feel as though I fold them if I don't make a hand, but any general tips on playing premiums?

You aren't being very specific here in describing just what, exactly, the problem is. Hands like AK and AQ play better at fixed limit than no-limit. When these hands hit the board, the most likely result is that you have a lone pair. In fixed limit, that's a through ticket to the river, as your TPTK will win a lot of pots. When they lose, it costs you a few bets.

In no-limit, and especially when playing deep, a TPTK can cost you your entire stack, or at least a big piece of it, when they get cracked. Overplaying a TPTK is a deadly mistake at no-limit. When stacks are deep, and you flop a TPTK, you need to do whatever it takes to keep that pot small. You may have to check back even though you risk giving a free card to a draw. In deep stack no-limit, your first priority is stack protection, not hand protection. You can't play a hand without a stack, and hand protection is apropos to fixed limit.

It's a whole 'nother story if you are short, or your opponent is short. Then a TPTK becomes a double up or get up hand. When the SPR drops below 3.0, then a TPTK is a stack-off hand. When you may make one, start getting that SPR down by raising pre.

High SPR spots make TPTK tricky to play, and it becomes imperative that you be able to let it go if your opponent(s) show they aren't willing to co-operate with you in keeping the pot small. All too many no-limit players marry their TPTK until death fo us part, and then moan and groan when they get stacked.

There are always exceptions, and sometimes deep stacks go in with TPTK. Just make sure that your TPTK has a reasonable chance to come out on top, and that takes quite a bit of judgment and decision making skills. Routinely taking TPTK to the felt is playing badly.
 
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Jreece18

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What sample size?? Because if ur not winning with those hands you cant be winning overall unless some kind of heater

Watch some of pokerbanks concepts on youtube prolly bit too advanced but there should basic concepts.

Learn your odds
Player styles
Power of position
Cbets
Flop textures
Way ahead way behind
Value and bluff
Hand classifications
Hand ranges


That is some random stuff to readup on .. some more advanced. I just woke up so cant think properly yet but that came to mind

Over 20k hands, not big enough?
 
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Jreece18

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Are you 3betting with those hands? You're not limping into the pot, are you? How many times do you go to showdown and how many times do you win the pot at showdown?

This sounds like a bet sizing and aggression problem

I usually 3bet, but for example, only 7/49 AKo hands go to showdown.. Biggest losses in the showdown ones obviously, but some have been bad luck. E.g:

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 4.29, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 71)
BB: 108 BB (VPIP: 10.47, PFR: 9.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.21, Hands: 263)
UTG: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 26.83, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 42)
Hero (UTG+1): 160.5 BB
MP: 102 BB (VPIP: 48.48, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
MP+1: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 14.89, PFR: 14.89, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
CO: 96.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: K:heart:

UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, MP calls 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 3 players) K:spade: 6:spade: 4:spade:
UTG checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP raises to 20 BB, fold, Hero calls 10 BB

Turn: (59.5 BB, 2 players) K:club:
Hero bets 30 BB, MP raises to 76 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 46 BB

River: (211.5 BB, 2 players) 7:club:

Hero shows A:heart: K:heart: (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 48%, Flop 4%, Turn 16%)
MP shows 6:heart: 6:diamond: (Full House, Sixes full of Kings)
(Pre 53%, Flop 96%, Turn 84%)
MP wins 204 BB

(although weak play, I know)

The losses from premium hands like this are not very much compared to AA, KK, etc winnings, but I feel like I must be playing them wrong.
 
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Aces2w1n

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It's just a cooler especially with the 2nd king that falls.

Just make sure you don't do the worst thing and that's fold these hands.

Most of the winning players on this site i believe would have got the money in without flinching and wouldn't be bothered seeing a set. It just happens sometimes.


20k hands is like a minimum amount to say whether your winning/losing but these days you can be losing over 50k or 100k and still be a winning player over 1mil hands.
I think you shouldn't be worried about how many hands you play so much but whether you played the hand right. Just always aim to better your play no matter on your winrate.
 
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Jreece18

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It's just a cooler especially with the 2nd king that falls.

Just make sure you don't do the worst thing and that's fold these hands.

Most of the winning players on this site i believe would have got the money in without flinching and wouldn't be bothered seeing a set. It just happens sometimes.


20k hands is like a minimum amount to say whether your winning/losing but these days you can be losing over 50k or 100k and still be a winning player over 1mil hands.
I think you shouldn't be worried about how many hands you play so much but whether you played the hand right. Just always aim to better your play no matter on your winrate.

Any other resources for fundamentals you'd recommend other than poker bank?
 
Aces2w1n

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i did start off with gripsed wasn't bad to begin with.

pokerstrategy.com

deucescracked i keep hearing is good.

poker concepts on youtube search comes up with free info.
 
Beanfacekilla

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"School of cards" on youtube. He is good at teaching the fundamentals.

Edit: gripsed is also really good and informative.


Read books also. Jonathan Little has some decent ones. I think it is called the ultimate guide to Texas holdem.



But books are going to be the biggest game changers for you (they were for me).
 
IPlay

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The hand you posted is not a cooler and you should of got away on the turn
 
Aces2w1n

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Because it's lower level turns it into a cooler. Most times people will make more post flop errors and call with a lot of anything. that is reason why I call it cooler.

Higher level you should get away from this but even still people bluff a lot more higher up.
 
Beanfacekilla

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As for the hand you posted.


This is just an unlucky spot.


However, there are some clues.....

1. Flop is mono-tone. We need runner runner to beat a flush. Considering the stakes, raise from villain almost always is 2p+.
2. It is a min-raise, and enticing, but the turn card is best we will ever see, and we still can't beat a flush, or a set, but we dominate some 2p now. And does villain even raise 2p on this board? Likely no.
3. There are many turns that are terrible for our hand.
4. Bet is kinda too small to fold to, but if we realize what villain has (2p+, flushes, sets), it could be a smart laydown. If we have ace of spades, different scenario.


All in all, if I am playing like a pro, I fold flop. It is definitely nitty, but thinking ahead, how much heat can we really take? Even if I call, I check the turn. Leading the turn is really asking for it.

We have a medium strength hand, but considering action, it is merely a marginal spot. We don't want to lead turn, and get raised. Gross. We want to try and control the size of pot, which is really impossible seeing villain has position, and is probably bombing all turns.


Once you see the turn though, it is tough to laydown.



I probably call flop, check turn, see how much villain bets. If he shoves for slightly over pot on turn, I probably find a fold. Player history and reads could play a role in my decision.


All in all, it is a cooler I guess. But if you thought it through, and made a good read, could be a spot for a sick laydown.


However, when we call this small flop raise, we have to think ahead to the next street. Think about cards that could come. What will we do on turn if we still only have TP? Whenever you are facing an aggressive action from villain, you must think ahead, and pre-plan for future streets.


Not horrible, I just don't like leading turn.
 
Dorugremon

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Most of the winning players on this site i believe would have got the money in without flinching and wouldn't be bothered seeing a set. It just happens sometimes.

I disagree. Look at what he posted:

SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 4.29, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 71)
BB: 108 BB (VPIP: 10.47, PFR: 9.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.21, Hands: 263)
UTG: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 26.83, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 42)
Hero (UTG+1): 160.5 BB
MP: 102 BB (VPIP: 48.48, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
MP+1: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 14.89, PFR: 14.89, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
CO: 96.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A K

UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, MP calls 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 3 players) K 6 4
UTG checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP raises to 20 BB, fold, Hero calls 10 BB

Turn: (59.5 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 30 BB, MP raises to 76 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 46 BB

River: (211.5 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero shows A K (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 48%, Flop 4%, Turn 16%)
MP shows 6 6 (Full House, Sixes full of Kings)
(Pre 53%, Flop 96%, Turn 84%)
MP wins 204 BB

He's playing quite deep here. I like that Hero 3! the UTG's minraise. I'd've taken it higher, like 10BBs, but I don't object to the 6BB repop.

I like Hero's ~ half pot c-bet, and if he takes this one down, he should be very glad, seeing how deep these players are. When the vill min-raises, that should have set off the alarm bells. Whether I'd call here is highly villain dependent, and what I knew of his play. Depending on the vill, this min-raise could be a "find out where I'm at" min-raise, a trapping, induction raise intended to lure in stacks, a blocker, or the gutless attempt to steal of a nut-scared rabbit. Maybe I'd call, and maybe I wouldn't. If I thought there was a chance I could run the vill off, I'd repop/fold if he came over the top again. Yes, you could get bluffed off the best hand here. A player who can't be bluffed is a calling station, and how do such players do?

If I decided my vill wasn't going to fold to a repop on the flop, and I just called, I'd check the turn, even though it made me trip kings. It looks better than it really is, and is just enough to suck the unwary deeper into the quagmire. By the turn, what are you beating? The only thing is an ( As, Xs ) and Hero was already ahead of all those hands, except for ( As, A ) specifically. The turn here should have been x/f.

As played, Hero should have cut his losses and folded to the vill's shove. After having shown this much strength, trip kings can't be good. This hand is an illustration of overplaying TPTK in deep stack NLHE.
 
WVHillbilly

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I disagree. Look at what he posted:

SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 4.29, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 71)
BB: 108 BB (VPIP: 10.47, PFR: 9.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.21, Hands: 263)
UTG: 42.5 BB (VPIP: 26.83, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 42)
Hero (UTG+1): 160.5 BB
MP: 102 BB (VPIP: 48.48, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
MP+1: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 14.89, PFR: 14.89, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
CO: 96.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A K

UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, MP calls 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 3 players) K 6 4
UTG checks, Hero bets 10 BB, MP raises to 20 BB, fold, Hero calls 10 BB

Turn: (59.5 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 30 BB, MP raises to 76 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 46 BB

River: (211.5 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero shows A K (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 48%, Flop 4%, Turn 16%)
MP shows 6 6 (Full House, Sixes full of Kings)
(Pre 53%, Flop 96%, Turn 84%)
MP wins 204 BB

He's playing quite deep here. I like that Hero 3! the UTG's minraise. I'd've taken it higher, like 10BBs, but I don't object to the 6BB repop.

I like Hero's ~ half pot c-bet, and if he takes this one down, he should be very glad, seeing how deep these players are. When the vill min-raises, that should have set off the alarm bells. Whether I'd call here is highly villain dependent, and what I knew of his play. Depending on the vill, this min-raise could be a "find out where I'm at" min-raise, a trapping, induction raise intended to lure in stacks, a blocker, or the gutless attempt to steal of a nut-scared rabbit. Maybe I'd call, and maybe I wouldn't. If I thought there was a chance I could run the vill off, I'd repop/fold if he came over the top again. Yes, you could get bluffed off the best hand here. A player who can't be bluffed is a calling station, and how do such players do?

If I decided my vill wasn't going to fold to a repop on the flop, and I just called, I'd check the turn, even though it made me trip kings. It looks better than it really is, and is just enough to suck the unwary deeper into the quagmire. By the turn, what are you beating? The only thing is an ( As, Xs ) and Hero was already ahead of all those hands, except for ( As, A ) specifically. The turn here should have been x/f.

As played, Hero should have cut his losses and folded to the vill's shove. After having shown this much strength, trip kings can't be good. This hand is an illustration of overplaying TPTK in deep stack NLHE.

But we're not deep here at all. Effective stack size is 102BB. check/folding the turn there is super weak-tight and just bad.
 
tagece

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Great post, great tips.

Sometimes, beginners like myself tend to overplay hands like that, by not considering the odds and the range of his opponents. It's a common mistake, get so excited with a strong hand that ends up forgetting what may be in the hands of others players.

A flop with three spades is really alarming and it's time to consider a check/fold after the flop, even with the pair of K and top kicker.

For experienced players is a easy decision, but for beginners ones really hurts to fold a hand like that.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Great post, great tips.

Sometimes, beginners like myself tend to overplay hands like that, by not considering the odds and the range of his opponents. It's a common mistake, get so excited with a strong hand that ends up forgetting what may be in the hands of others players.

A flop with three spades is really alarming and it's time to consider a check/fold after the flop, even with the pair of K and top kicker.

For experienced players is a easy decision, but for beginners ones really hurts to fold a hand like that.

Hold on there a second. We have some contrasting opinion from WV. Let's wait, and hopefully some others might weigh in here.


Maybe WV has a point. Meh.
 
tagece

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Hold on there a second. We have some contrasting opinion from WV. Let's wait, and hopefully some others might weigh in here.


Maybe WV has a point. Meh.

Well, I think there is no the absolute best way to play a hand. It depends on your style and strategy of game, and, most of all, how the villain is playing his hands.

If he is a tight player, you need to be very cautious in a situation like that. If he is lose and aggressive, maybe you need to play in other way.

But I think if you decide to play aggressively, you need really to know what you are doing.
 
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Personally think calling the flop was a bigger mistake than calling the shove. On the flop I'm barely beating anything and looking at the villain's stats - even if it's only over 33 hands - I wouldn't put it past him to have something like 64s... I think I'd have found it easier to get away from without the K but when that hit I struggle to give up to someone playing like the villain is (probably a leak).

I like WV's advice about the preflop 3bet. Should I be 3-betting larger when OOP (such as here when I have so many people to act behind me)?

From looking at my hand histories I definitely see I have a lot of problems playing AK and AQ, I have trouble letting go of TPTK, one instance I even call TPTK when there's a four to the flush board... Should I just write down some tips for playing AK and then put all my focus onto playing the hand correctly when they come up?
 
WVHillbilly

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Personally think calling the flop was a bigger mistake than calling the shove. On the flop I'm barely beating anything and looking at the villain's stats - even if it's only over 33 hands - I wouldn't put it past him to have something like 64s... I think I'd have found it easier to get away from without the K but when that hit I struggle to give up to someone playing like the villain is (probably a leak).

I like WV's advice about the preflop 3bet. Should I be 3-betting larger when OOP (such as here when I have so many people to act behind me)?

From looking at my hand histories I definitely see I have a lot of problems playing AK and AQ, I have trouble letting go of TPTK, one instance I even call TPTK when there's a four to the flush board... Should I just write down some tips for playing AK and then put all my focus onto playing the hand correctly when they come up?
I didn't mention your 3bet size although I would generally go to 8 or 9x there after he min raises mostly because we're in fairly early position and we don't really want someone in LP to tag along and he seems likely to call the bigger bet. Also I think your biggest mistake in the hand was calling the flop raise although with his preflop stats he certainly could just be ****ing around with a FD. Once we've called the flop raise and then bet again on the turn, all I'm really saying is that you can't fold trips with Ace kicker for another 46BB against a guy who can have all sorts of random shit in his range including all kinds of worse Kings.
 
sandund

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Aight, say no more, you already know. :rolleyes:

Recently, I totally bankrupt with my Ah-Ad vs As-5h vs Ac-5d. I was on BB and just called the preflop all in of two 'bingo' players. :rolleyes:

poker odds calculator

My AA hand = Win : 90.78%
Tie : 1.31%

Two other players together = Win : 1.30%
Tie : 6.62%

Board was 2,3,4,*,* - straight, and both of them got their bingo. :bird:
 
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