Microsoft stakes a gimmic?

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davidhoyle107

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So, I spent about a year learning poker. I was playing micro stakes. I played the tag game with abc poker. Now I know a year isn't long, but it seems like micro stakes are their own beast, and require a completely counter abc style to win. I can sit down at a 25 nlhe game and come out with 50. But go in a 4 nlhe and poof, it's gone. I'm considering just breaking bankroll rules and moving up to a reasonable stake.
 
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colbear

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just increase your bankroll

So, I spent about a year learning poker. I was playing micro stakes. I played the tag game with abc poker. Now I know a year isn't long, but it seems like micro stakes are their own beast, and require a completely counter abc style to win. I can sit down at a 25 nlhe game and come out with 50. But go in a 4 nlhe and poof, it's gone. I'm considering just breaking bankroll rules and moving up to a reasonable stake.


Instead of just moving up and end up losing your money and keep redepositing because your bankroll doesn't support where you want to play .If you feel you are able to play bigger limits deposit more so you have a good bankroll for your new limits or wait till you win more to do so
 
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If you're winning at 25, why not just stay at 25 instead of switching to a lower stake you don't win at?
 
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davidhoyle107

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If you're winning at 25, why not just stay at 25 instead of switching to a lower stake you don't win at?

This is what I'm thinking of. I'm just surprised that 25 is actually easier for me to win at is all.
 
IPlay

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High rake at micros is tough. If you like to see a lot of flops it will kill your win rate.
 
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If you're winning at 25, why not just stay at 25 instead of switching to a lower stake you don't win at?

Agree with this to some extent. Personally I am here both because I love Poker and because I like winning.. (who doesn't). If you're happy to stay where you are and just cash out every month then that's great. But if you're end goal is to play at the highest stakes with the best players, then your skill must increase at the same rate as your bankroll. Best way to measure this is to compare bb/100 at each level and note the differences (if any). Then if the winrate at the higher level is lower, find out why and fix it. Then move up. Rinse and repeat.
 
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This is what I'm thinking of. I'm just surprised that 25 is actually easier for me to win at is all.
My thoughts exactly... I find microstakes unbeatable for me at least. Too many nits and unbeatable rake.
 
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kozong

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I'm considering just breaking bankroll rules and moving up to a reasonable stake.
dont just move up where they respect your raises man
you wont survive higher stakes if you cant beat the lower ones
learn to adjust better on them
 
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davidhoyle107

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dont just move up where they respect your raises man
you wont survive higher stakes if you cant beat the lower ones
learn to adjust better on them

I totally agree with this. That said, when multiple dinks chase every out possible, it's hard to play solid tag poker and win. I've heard several micro grinders state it's totally different if you want to actually beat micro. Black rains book illustrates that point very well. While you can win in low stakes, it's a lot different.
 
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So, in your opinion, it's easier to play higher stakes. I have never heard that before, you must be a true genius, an innovator, in which case you don't even need a bankroll, just move to the highest stakes available and crush everyone there, just imagine how easy that would be for you!
 
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davidhoyle107

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So, in your opinion, it's easier to play higher stakes. I have never heard that before, you must be a true genius, an innovator, in which case you don't even need a bankroll, just move to the highest stakes available and crush everyone there, just imagine how easy that would be for you!

That's not what I'm saying. Moving from 25 to 100 I'd die. But micro stakes aren't normal poker.
 
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Where do you play? I have come to realize that my winrate is much better at 5NL than 2NL on pokerstars (zoom), probably because more people can find a check sometimes and I don't get shove on the first time I slow down agression and can't call it. That's irritating, I would adjust on regular tables but Zoom 5NL is fine in my experience , I can play something that feels more like thinking poker and win more.

I would not be rolled to play 25NL so that's a solution for me, perhaps it's not the same on other sites...
 
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davidhoyle107

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Where do you play? I have come to realize that my winrate is much better at 5NL than 2NL on PokerStars (zoom), probably because more people can find a check sometimes and I don't get shove on the first time I slow down agression and can't call it. That's irritating, I would adjust on regular tables but Zoom 5NL is fine in my experience , I can play something that feels more like thinking poker and win more.

I would not be rolled to play 25NL so that's a solution for me, perhaps it's not the same on other sites...
I'm playing the merge network "black chip, acr, true". There are too many fish there. Plus I don't like zoom poker. I want my hud. I've already made a 170 bankroll into a 235 bankroll. So given my 10 buy ins I should have some variance.
 
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davidhoyle107

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I'm playing the merge network "black chip, acr, true". There are too many fish there. Plus I don't like zoom poker. I want my hud. I've already made a 170 bankroll into a 235 bankroll. So given my 10 buy ins I should have some variance.

Im in the u.s.
 
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ccres

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So, I spent about a year learning poker. I was playing micro stakes. I played the tag game with abc poker. Now I know a year isn't long, but it seems like micro stakes are their own beast, and require a completely counter abc style to win. I can sit down at a 25 nlhe game and come out with 50. But go in a 4 nlhe and poof, it's gone. I'm considering just breaking bankroll rules and moving up to a reasonable stake.

Hi. It is beating rake that's the issue or just not winning in general? It is that you're bluffing in spots that should probably work but don't? It is people getting it in bad and hitting turns or rivers on you?

I agree that a lot of the time microstakes tables don't play standard.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Hi. It is beating rake that's the issue or just not winning in general? It is that you're bluffing in spots that should probably work but don't? It is people getting it in bad and hitting turns or rivers on you?

I agree that a lot of the time microstakes tables don't play standard.

It's mainly the last one. I get 2 people or more sometimes all calling with junk. Then one lucky punk hits 2 of a kind or trips or something.
 
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Neek4555

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Yea i hate to beat a. Dead horse because I love horses but you have to move up in stakes. One person says if you're winning there why go up. R u kidding me? Once you have a large enough bankroll to move up and you've been consistently winning at those stakes....MOVE UP!
 
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Neek4555

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Also do not do not do not

Continuation bet into 3 players.

Some say multi-way action of 2 players or more and generally I agree but def. 3
 
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james bright

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try multiple tables at 25 best way to win
 
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ccres

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It's mainly the last one. I get 2 people or more sometimes all calling with junk. Then one lucky punk hits 2 of a kind or trips or something.

Yeah that can definitely be frustrating. You know though that over time you'll come out ahead as long as you're putting money in ahead. If you do move up to higher stakes I'll be interested to hear what you think after you've put in a larger number of hours.
 
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davidhoyle107

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So, I have actually started multi tabling 25 games. I've won 50 at least so far. It's much better.
 
BenjiHustle

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You're going to lose when they catch on to you. I'm willing to bet you win a lot of your pots through aggression, which is a problem at micros, but somehow nobody told you that 25nl is still, technically, micros. The only difference is that, now, they're going to take your aggression seriously for a while until they get notes or stats on you, then they're gonna 3-bet steal and look you up with speculative hands.

If you can't beat 4nl, you can't truly beat 25nl. Your issue is one in which you're unable to fold. I once did the exact same thing you're doing. I got up to 400nl before things got serious. I managed to cashout with most of my winnings, but I was going up knowing that I was outside of my level and always knew I'd have to return to the micros to really refine my game and move my way up the right way.
 
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davidhoyle107

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You're going to lose when they catch on to you. I'm willing to bet you win a lot of your pots through aggression, which is a problem at micros, but somehow nobody told you that 25nl is still, technically, micros. The only difference is that, now, they're going to take your aggression seriously for a while until they get notes or stats on you, then they're gonna 3-bet steal and look you up with speculative hands.

If you can't beat 4nl, you can't truly beat 25nl. Your issue is one in which you're unable to fold. I once did the exact same thing you're doing. I got up to 400nl before things got serious. I managed to cashout with most of my winnings, but I was going up knowing that I was outside of my level and always knew I'd have to return to the micros to really refine my game and move my way up the right way.
Most of my cash actually came from showdowns. Very little of it in perspective was aggression. I've now gone from 125 dollars up to 200. I'll admit, I don't fold enough. But I don't c bet each pot either. Actually, my c bet percent is only around 60%. I'll admit my fold to c bet is too low, but I'm not just betting air either.
 
BenjiHustle

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Well, good luck, but I've never heard of someone struggling at 5nl and less and finding success at higher levels in the long-term. I hope you're right, because $200 is no bankroll for 25nl.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Well, good luck, but I've never heard of someone struggling at 5nl and less and finding success at higher levels in the long-term. I hope you're right, because $200 is no bankroll for 25nl.

That's true about bankroll. I may stock with 5 just for that reason.
 
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