Are the Micros beatable in 2020?

I know this question comes up every now and then, but I think it's still reasonable to ask.

I've noticed that poker is experiencing a resurgence online in 2020, partly fueled by Twitch streamers and because events like the wsop tournaments are moving online. I've been playing cash games again (2NL and 5NL) and in my opinion, the games are a lot tougher than they used to be. There are literally hundreds of very tight players with TAG or NIT stats populating the Zoom tables. The players with typical fish stats are not that common anymore. Even at 2NL and 5NL, the general standard of play has improved drastically, from what I can see. Sure there are still spewy players, but as an average player, it's really tough to maintain a positive bb/100 winrate.

I know there is a guy out there selling his program (you know the guy I mean) which claims to transform your style into a Micro-crushing machine. But I am somewhat sceptical about his claims. In some of his material, he claimed to have a winrate of -11 bb/100 from the BB position over around 100k hands. That number is very suspicious to me.

Anyway, with the high rake and limits on cash tables (such as 4 tables max in Stars), the high numbers of NITs and TAGs, and the general increase in playing standard (in my opinion), is it actually possible to beat the Micros in 2020? And by the way, has anyone ever really actually showed (with hard proof, not just selectively cropped screenshots) that they have crushed the Micros for over 100k hands?

Yes. Very beatable Table selection is key.

Zoom is a completely different game, and winrates are way higher on normal tables, especially with a bit of table and seat selection. The 4 table cap has softened the regular tables, which was also Stars intention. It has not softened Zoom tables though, since there is no cap there. In fact it might have done the opposite, because it has pushed even more regs towards playing Zoom.

fundiver199 said:

It has not softened Zoom tables though, since there is no cap there. In fact it might have done the opposite, because it has pushed even more regs towards playing Zoom.

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As far as I know, the 4-table cap also applies to Zoom on Stars.

caracaski220

I think the 4 table cap is good. And agree that the paly is much harder. I tend to be skeptical of people who claim to have programs that crush anything. How come they arent millonaires and need to sell you something?

TheGenera1 said:

Yes. Very beatable Table selection is key.

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So avoiding Zoom is the first step, I guess. But can you explain why you think it is beatable?

TheGenera1 said:

Yes. Very beatable Table selection is key.

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The guy I meant claims that he is a specialist at the Micros and has made over $100k playing Micros and small stakes. He says that at Mid-High stakes he isn't winning. The point is that there is a 'formula' for crushing the Micros.

caracaski220

Poker is profitable for players that play well and have control, I have won much more than I have lost at poker. Mostly beacause I mostly play live tourneys and have some big cashes.
However recently I have been playing micro stakes mtts because of the covid quarentine, mostly to pass the time. If I were to put an hourly wage on my time at the tables, I would be better off working at Mcdonalds.

The micros is definitely beatable but the rake is very high. You have to be crushing the game to show a profit.

Of course they are. I don't know who started with this paranoia that poker can't be beat in 2020 or that micro can't be beat, lmao. Micros are very easy to beat.

NLH cash can suck my balls. PLO cash all the way.

Every results should be based on long-term distance, short one doesn't work in poker

johnnythemoss said:

So avoiding Zoom is the first step, I guess. But can you explain why you think it is beatable?

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I think it's beatable. The problem with finding someone with 100k hands is that if they are beating the game at a decent rate they are probably more likely to move up before reaching that sample size. I don't have much 2NL or 5NL but if I add 10 NL then I have 27k hands which isn't enough to know a true win rate but it's probably enough to know if you're beating the game or not. Here are my pokerstars micro stats and I didn't table select much at all. I started with the free $20 promo and ran it up to $350+ in the data set below. Then a friend of mine staked me an additional $300 to move up to 30NL:

johnnythemoss said:

As far as I know, the 4-table cap also applies to Zoom on Stars.

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Yes and no. There has always been a maximum of 4 entries into the same Zoom pool, but a player can have as many Zoom tables running, as he like, if he play different limits. He can also have 4 normal tables running and then add Zoom tables, which Stars even encourage. When you try to open normal table number 5, you get a massage, which goes something like "you have reached the limit for your number of entries to cash tables, but you might still add Zoom tables". Also lets not forget, that 4 Zoom tables is similar to 12 regular tables, when it comes to the number of hands per hour.

Zoom games are v tough andyou will do better at regular games.

You are right that all games are getting tougher. There is not as much money in the economy, coaching sites aremaking players better and weaker players at tougher stakes are getting forced to move to lower stakes.

Don't listen to 99% of the bs online. Poker is a hard game.
Play because you enjoy it and study continuously to avoid being overtaken.

Play regular ms games with 100- 200 buyins and after say 200,000 hands , see if you are doing better than 0bb100 . If so, you're heading in the right direction.

Micros are very beatable and should be used to build the foundation of your game. These stakes will get you very good experience at a cheaper price than the starting stakes of 1/2 or 1/3 live at a casino. The key is table selection and finding the fish and not the regs.

They're beatable, you just have to adapt your game to the players around you. To combat the high rake, just be very aggressive preflop and try to get tight players off marginal hands. If they don't fold a marginal hand then take note of what they had and how the action went so you can know next time you're in a pot with that player. They're very beatable, just play your game and take note of what kinds of players you're at the table with.

Just the table earn money from poker.

It seems to me that you can beat, but for this it is important to adapt your game to other players. It is necessary to closely monitor their actions at the table, analyze and look for the best solution.

Not for me at the moment

I don't think there are too many people who have played more than 100k on the micros in a professional form. The main reason is that the micro stakes must be overcome with the smallest possible volume, since it is not profitable to stay there long, due to the high rakes. I personally think these levels of poker are beatable.
Greetings.

Definitely beatable.

I've got 70k hands of 2NL (mostly zoom) in my database from this year winning at 5BB/100 ($70 up) and I played bloody awfully at times and tilted away quite a bit.
Am sure with more control over emotions I can achieve an even better win rate. Have had a solid past few weeks at over 8BB/100.

I'm nothing special. So, study how to beat 2NL specifically, be disciplined and stick to the game plan. Don't let bad sessions get you down, walk away before you tilt it away, go with a sensible bankroll and just play the long game aiming to see where you're at after 30k+ hands.

Micros are definitely beatable. I've played over 100k hands at 2nl on Stars and won at over 10bb/100 around 5 years ago. It's much tougher now but even in the last few months I've played over 100k hands at 10nl (again on Stars) and won at 4bb/100. I wasn't even playing that well. The rake is a killer and even higher than it used to be.

It is definitely beatable but as others have mentioned, you need to play an exploitable style and bet huge with your big hands and make disciplined folds when you're probably beat.

Good luck!

I have never done well at any limit in online poker but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

It can be achieved but that is long term to reach that amount of hands and you would have to be playing almost 20 hours a day, which is difficult since to play you need to rest and have the energy to have good results