Massive pot lost with AA - please critique my play

I dont have the hand history(bovada) yet but this is how the hand went by my memory.

9 handed table (.10/.25)
Me - SB
Villain UTG

Pre-flop
----------
Villain UTG limps in
2 middle positions limp in
Button raises to $1.00
folds to me - I raise to $5
Villain calls
everybody else folds

Flop
-------

6,8,10 rainbow
I bet 2/3rd pot - villain calls

Turn
------------
2 of diamonds

I bet 1/2 pot - villain calls

River
-----------
rag - 4 of clubs
I go all in - villain calls.

---

me - AA
villain 9,7 of diamonds

Total pot - ~$95

I think ur play is fine here. I play it pretty similarly I think. Only I don't half pot the turn, I bet 2/3 pot again, maybe 3/4. He is basically ghosting with his flopped straight because what kind of person calls 5 dollars pre at 25NLHE with 97 off suit? U are basically going to lose everything no matter what here. I can't picture myself folding the aces ever. I like ur play. I think in that spot u were just unlucky

You can't really do anything you played it right, just there is always a luck element in this game and it happened to get the best of you in this instance.

I like the play preflop, flop and turn, but if he's still calling I'd worry about a set maybe. Could check the river I suppose and if he shoves....wait a minute, I don't play NL cash.

Wow, you got called pre flop by a donkey who thought it was ok to call a 20x BB 3 bet raise with 97s and he flopped the nuts. That guy is going to end up filling bankruptcy if he keeps playing like that.

You played your hand right. It was just a very good lucky flop for him.

Mark that opponent as a donk/monkey/fish/idiot (whatever you want), go hunt him down and take all of his money. Next time he won't be that lucky.
GL

bull said:

I dont have the hand history(bovada) yet but this is how the hand went by my memory.

9 handed table (.10/.25)
Me - SB
Villain UTG

Pre-flop
----------
Villain UTG limps in
2 middle positions limp in
Button raises to $1.00
folds to me - I raise to $5
Villain calls
everybody else folds

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You seemed to have gotten plenty of words about your play. I have to tease about your memory here, who folded between the button and you in the SB?

Overbet flop, you wanna price out 9x/1 over type hands.

Other than that you played it fine. It's a cooler.

well your biggest mistake was made pre flop you should of raised to $5.01, that 1 one cent would of gotten a hand like 97s out and you would of won.. (Just Kidding) You played it good. chalk it up to that damn variance

But I thought pocket aces was a lock!?



Meh what can you do, you bet for value with a worse hand, it happens.

AvaloNNN said:

Mark that opponent as a donk/monkey/fish/idiot (whatever you want), go hunt him down and take all of his money. Next time he won't be that lucky.
GL

Click to expand...

It's Bovada. No way I can mark him or take notes.

Aleksei said:

Overbet flop, you wanna price out 9x/1 over type hands.

Other than that you played it fine. It's a cooler.

Click to expand...

Overbetting the flop? wouldn't that mean your losing -EV unless ofc they call and you c/f the turn.

I know you can't take notes but could you not have a word doc open or a xl sheet where when you meet players like this you jot them down. Keep it alphabetical and then when your at a table you can have a cheeky scan on the sheet for players you've played before.

bull said:

It's Bovada. No way I can mark him or take notes.

Click to expand...

Could be a bot

bull said:

I dont have the hand history(bovada) yet but this is how the hand went by my memory.

9 handed table (.10/.25)
Me - SB
Villain UTG

Pre-flop
----------
Villain UTG limps in
2 middle positions limp in
Button raises to $1.00
folds to me - I raise to $5
Villain calls
everybody else folds

Flop
-------

6,8,10 rainbow
I bet 2/3rd pot - villain calls

Turn
------------
2 of diamonds

I bet 1/2 pot - villain calls

River
-----------
rag - 4 of clubs
I go all in - villain calls.

---

me - AA
villain 9,7 of diamonds

Total pot - ~$95

Click to expand...

Wow. Guy risked $5.00 after a UTG limp with small suited connectors? With 3 more players to act after he calls? Then flops the nuts? I just don't know what to say, except "fluke", "gambler", "donkey", "drunk", "idiot", "lucky s.o.b."; He could not possibly make any money in the long run with plays like that.

But, when they do, what are you left with? 20-20 hindsight:

After a limp and a flat call, he either has: AA/KK/AK or, oddly enough, small suited connectors or some other pair; he has to have something! What else could it be? A-rag? Nope. Unconnected suited cards? Nope. . With AA/KK/AK you would expect a...raise, right? Put yourself in his seat; what would you have done with those aces in his spot after a huge 3-bet? 4-bet/shove? Putting yourself in his spot with any other hand is hard, because you would most likely fold a smaller pair or small suited connectors. So, that must be what he has. A so called "speculative" hand. Evidence of this is that he initially limped in and then flat called your 3-bet.

So, "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." So, he must have small suited connectors or a small pair he is trying to hit a set with, which he would not have 4-bet you with. It's impossible that he has AA/KK, he flat called. Then, you see a highly coordinated flop perfect for J9 or 79 or a set. Is that a hand he would limp in with and flat call your 3 bet with? YES. So, you check that flop, see what he does, perhaps get off by paying less. If he shoves that flop, what could he have? Something better than a pair of aces, clearly. J9 or 79 or a set. Your preflop and postflop play says strength, but his calls clearly say "if you are in here with a big pair, I can beat that". He had to know you had a big pair. What else would you 3-bet with? Something which that flop has nothing to do with.

Now, can you figure all that shown above out in the few seconds you have to act? NO. Is hindsight really 20-20? YES. Did you get pot committed and overbet with only one overpair into a highly coordinated board after your c-bet and turn bet was called? YES. Do people count the chickens before they hatch when they hold aces? YES.

Why do you think they say that with aces you either win a little pot or lose a big one? After he calls you, you got to wonder what he has, why is he calling the flop? Because he has a ten? Would he limp in UTG and call such a huge raise with K-10 or A-10? Unlikely. He would have raised UTG or folded. Then you show that you can clearly beat A-10 or K-10, yet he still calls! What does he have? Better than any one pair hand, clearly, I think. How do I know all this? I do it all the time and lose big pots with my aces when I refuse to fold them and forget, it's just one pair (lol)

Stop beating yourself up and move on. It's poker.

You just got unlucky. It sucks, but it happens. If you keep playing it'll happen again. You played it just fine. Gotta just move on.

Overbetting the flop?

You played it well 'till the river. I would have checked but tbh you can't be blamed. I would have gone mad if I lost ~95$ in your position :x GL next time !

Yes, a lot of people don't value bet rivers enough, this is a common leak.

Aces2w1n said:

Overbetting the flop? wouldn't that mean your losing -EV unless ofc they call and you c/f the turn.

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No because draws calling is +EV for you, and JJ+/AT calling is +EV for you too. Hands that call and beat you (2p/sets/straights made) are a minority of combos.

spsb83 said:

I know you can't take notes but could you not have a word doc open or a xl sheet where when you meet players like this you jot them down. Keep it alphabetical and then when your at a table you can have a cheeky scan on the sheet for players you've played before.

Click to expand...

You can take notes, they just won't stay on the player after they leave the table. Also, they only assign people a number based on where they are sitting/when they registered for a tournament so once he leaves the table there is no way to keep track of him.

UnNa7uRal said:

You played it well 'till the river. I would have checked but tbh you can't be blamed. I would have gone mad if I lost ~95$ in your position :x GL next time !

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I'm looking at this again; While the total pot was 95.00, he only "lost" his half of that he actually put in.

I think the 5.00 3 bet was a bit off as well; you want to double the original raisers amount, plus one additional bet per person. So, 3 limpers, 1 raiser:

1.00 + 1.00 + .25 + .25 +.25 = 2.75 4-bet, not 5.00. This is exercising pot control. So, lets compare the 2;

$5.00 4-bet preflop:
11.75 pot preflop (5.00+5.00+1.00+0.25+0.25+.25)
7.83/7.83, 2/3 pot flop bets, 27.41 pot
13.71/13.71, 1/2 pot turn bets, 54.82 pot
20.09/20.09, all in and a call river bets, 95.00 pot
$46.63 total loss to villain.

Now, contrast that with the correct $2.75 4-bet:
7.25 pot preflop (assuming original raiser folds)
4.83/4.83, 2/3 pot flop bets, 16.92 pot
8.45/8.45, 1/2 pot turn bets, 33.84 pot
value bet river, 8.00; Why so little? Simple! It makes you look strong\Pot control. So then....If he has you beat or he isn't sure, he will either:
A. Flat call it (you only now lose 24.03)
B. Re-raise by either doubling it (you call knowing you are most likely beat and lose far less), or shoving (you realize you are beat and fold).

If he shoves, it does look like a bluff; he did flat call every street. That is either an attempt to steal later, or he has the nuts and is letting you do the betting. No way could you think he is bluffing, because of all the previous actions - he knows how strong you are, so therefore it's far less likely he is bluffing. So, by exercising some pot control, especially when you only have one overpair to a highly coordinated board, you save some $$.

If it were me, I might have skipped the turn bet. Clearly he is going to call you and probably will bet the river or wait for you to screw up, which would have saved you even more and given you a free card.

Also, if you knew you would be all in by the river, you could have just shoved preflop. What? $46.00 into a $6.75 pot preflop? Thats correct. By doing so you are screaming at the table "I have a big hand, call at your own risk" and giving the guy abysmal pot odds. I seriously doubt under that scenario the donkey with small suited connectors is going to call almost $50.00 with them knowing he is behind already. And if he did, the outcome would have been the same, would it not?

By over-4 betting, he most likely called thinking the original raiser would also call and possibly one of the other limpers, therefore in his mind, he would have the right pot odds to make the call. Or, he wasn't thinking at all, and that pre-flop shove would have forced him to.

In the end, you just have to be able to lay down big hands now and again. AA is only one pair. That's it. Like any other pair, if you do not improve, you only have one over pair to the board. He could just as well had 8-10 for two pair and beat you.

I dont think you can play poker with the attitude of losing a bit pot or winning a small pot with AA or KK.

With 2 outs you will generally only be a over pair hand. No matter what cards on the board, villain may always have trips or 2 pairs.

If you play defensive assuming the better hand for your opponent, you are leaving a lot of money of the table.

3bet a little smaller - $4ish. Bet bigger on the turn. Check the river - he may, if he's bad, be calling with a 10, but you're likely looking at a set.