Making smaller preflop raises(6-max)

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CaptainKout

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So preflop raising/opening is something I think about a lot. At one point I experimented with a terribly detrimental raises sizes, smaller in early big in later, but I've converted to the norm now(got eaten alive for bringing it up, lol). So I'm typically raising 5bb from utg then down to 3bb from the btn. I'm considering shrinking all of my preflop raises. something like 2.25 on the btn, 2.75 in co, and 3 utg+1 and 3.5 in early position. (these are convinient raise sizes on cake software)

This will make my steal attempts cheaper, but might have the effect of getting three-bet more often from the blinds while also making it cheaper to call threebets in position. It could also have the beneficial effect of getting fish in just about every pot but I'm not sure thats what I want since I have a ton of work to do on my post flop game, some fish don't have any fold equity, and their ranges will be huge. It might also loosen up some of the tighter players which will allow me to see more flops with them in position. I understand that with the strong hands, I want to raise as big as possible to realize value when they will call with worse but with the exception of callingstation type fish a lot of regs are playing weak-tight and this might be exploitative of their style.

Another consideration is that rake comes out when theres a flop so maybe taking the blinds is better than seeing so many flops(probably close to negligible).

Is it worth a try? Anyone else experiment with smaller-than-standard preflop raises? If I do this should I be more/less aggressive post flop and why? And do you guys have anything to say about turn c-bets(experiment in progress)?
 
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CaptainKout

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Played about 500 hands today with smaller preflop raises. Didn't really seem to get three bet more. Blinds just called all day. I barely ever got to showdown either so who knows what they had. My guess is that they were calling just about anything they hadn't already auto-folded. Strangest of all, was that when I did get three-bet it was enormous. So I never got many chances to just call in position. I ran really good tho so jury is still out.
 
acky100

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Changing your open raise size is good but there are no magic numbers and they should be different depending on your game as a whole and position. One thing i think is super retarded though is people who open raise smaller in EP, this just seems dumb as it is when your range is the strongest.

You should also adjust it depending on the table, if theres a fish in the blinds i might make it 3 or 4x pre whereas if it were 2 pretty aggressive regulars i'd maybe min open or 2.5x. It also depends on your stake because at 2, 5 or 10nl people make calling mistakes far more often so you can just open like 3 or 4x every position, maybe 3x the button and it'll work perfectly whereas at 50 and 100nl people start 3betting a bit more and there are less fish so 4x'ing pre would suck when the games are full of short stackers who 3bet like monkeys. Basically adjust to the players mainly. Oh and about the "your game" part - If you're playing very loose and aggressive, it's in your best interest to raise smaller pre as you're playing way more pots and are relying on stealing lots of pots rather than if you're really tight where you have a strong range you mayaswell make it bigger pre as you will be wanting to play bigger pots more often.
 
dj11

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After trying 3 different replies, I find they all boil down to:

It is all table dependent.

When you first sit down, among your many 'to does' is to determine what raises are working at that table, and trying to reduce that number some.

Try the trap instead of the reraise.
 
Cafeman

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Try the trap instead of the reraise.

Yeah... uhhhh... what?


I found there were plenty of 3bettors/squeezerisers at 10NL with my recent little foray.

Tend to agree with Acky.

I will often minraise the btn vs nits who will either fold or 3bet or maybe flat with AQo (lol). They mostly fold, so why bother treating them with any respect is what I say :)

Apart from that I default to 3x from all positions. Although I read an article recently (an old 2+2 cotw I think) where he was talking about opening bigger according to your range (rather than your specific hand obv*). So for example, 4x from UTG/MP, 3x from CO/SB and then perhaps 2.5x from BTN. Dunno, something like that. Need to look into this some more.

* always make a note if you catch someone 4x their premiums but 3x everything else. Bet sizing tells are always noteworthy.
 
Arjonius

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The specifics escape me, but I seem to recall that Phil Gordon is one teacher who likes to use different opening bet sizes according to his table position.

I think that at the micros, it's not that big an issue. It only matters against a minority of opponents, the ones who both notice your sizing pattern and can adjust appropriately. And even then, there may not be a huge incentive for them to try to exploit you since it's still easier to take money from the fish (assuming they don't see you as one).
 
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CaptainKout

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Dan Harrington touched on it briefly in his cash game series. He said something to the effect of standardize your bet size or scale it depending on your position. Big early to make the odds for villains with position worse and smaller towards the btn to see more flops in position and cheaper steals. Chris Ferguson has a couple articles saying the exact opposite but a) that was probably for tournaments b) all the cc regs say its ridiculous. His logic states that you want to play bigger pots when you have a positional advantage over your opponents(opponents oop are at informational disadvantage).

Note: I kinda worshiped Ferguson when I first got into poker so I didn't question its practicality but I'm beyond blind worship now. Probably a few deserving cc-ers tho.
 
dj11

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You guys read too many books and articles and seem to be avoiding finding your own game.
 
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CaptainKout

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Its a psychological thing. I feel like an awesome poker player when I'm reading. And feel like a very mediocre poker player when I'm playing. So I read a lot.
 
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