Making a profit at 4NL

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MickMurrr19

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I started playing poker 7 months ago and honestly I haven't been successful. Every deposit has been busted. Im definitely not a donk or a fish however I will admit that I do have postflop leaks in my game. I usually deposit just the minimum of 25$ and whatever I do it ends up burning out after a week. IMO its due to poor bankroll management, leaks in my game, and bad beats. Next time I deposit should I deposit more to give myself more breathing room for 4NL?

Also I completely understand im not going to be the next tom dwan or phil ivey overnight and that its a grind. Im not playing poker cause I think its a get rich quick scheme. It just that every time I deposit I cant turn a profit.

To be successful at 4NL should I limit how much time I spend playing to limit variance? Should I play more or less tables? Is coaching something I should invest in for these stakes? Is poker still a profitable venture worth pursuing or should I take all these busts as a sign to quit? What is a realistic expectation of profit over a month of playing 4NL? Oh and dont say "play live. all the fish are in the casinos" cuz Im not old enough.
 
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honeycrush

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I started playing poker 7 months ago and honestly I haven't been successful. Every deposit has been busted. Im definitely not a donk or a fish however I will admit that I do have postflop leaks in my game. I usually deposit just the minimum of 25$ and whatever I do it ends up burning out after a week. IMO its due to poor bankroll management, leaks in my game, and bad beats. Next time I deposit should I deposit more to give myself more breathing room for 4NL?

Also I completely understand im not going to be the next tom dwan or phil ivey overnight and that its a grind. Im not playing poker cause I think its a get rich quick scheme. It just that every time I deposit I cant turn a profit.

To be successful at 4NL should I limit how much time I spend playing to limit variance? Should I play more or less tables? Is coaching something I should invest in for these stakes? Is poker still a profitable venture worth pursuing or should I take all these busts as a sign to quit? What is a realistic expectation of profit over a month of playing 4NL? Oh and dont say "play live. all the fish are in the casinos" cuz Im not old enough.


Hi Mick. You mentioned above what seems like your first hurdle. BRM. There's no way you should be playing 4nl with a $25 BR. Of course if you are able to deposit then your BR is bigger (just not kept online) but playing with such a small BR could cause you so to play with "scared money" or to go on tilt so is not a good idea. The usual rule of thumb for beginners is 20x the buyin. So for 4nl that would be $80. Why don't you try depositing $80 next time and see how you get on?

My second piece of advice to you would be to start posting hands and asking for feedback. Do you have a tracker? You can trial Holdem Manager or Poker Tracker for free and this is a good way to examine your play and find your leaks. If you already have a tracker, try posting your stats and some of the more experienced players may be able to advise you on where you're going wrong.

Good luck! :)
 
DonV73

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I also think BankRollManagement (BRM) is important for you. Like Honeycrush said, $25 is not enough. As BRM for cashgames I personally calculate to have min. 25x buy in. So if you are playing 4NL and the max buyin is $4 (maybe it's $5 I dont remember exactly) then you need a min. bankroll of 25x $4 = $100.

I use 25x as BRM but others might find it too high or too low. $25 as a bankroll is def. too low since it is about 6 bi's.

I hope this was helpful, and gl at the tables ! :)
 
Arjonius

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Your problem is simple. You're not good enough to beat 4nl.

BRM is a red herring. You don't say how much you deposited in total, However, would you have been either profitable or unprofitable but still with some amount left in your BR if you had deposited it all at once?

Whatever the total amount is that you deposited, assuming you played the same amount, you'd still have lost it all. So don't fool yourself into thinking that poor BRM is even partly to blame.
 
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Frankie6636

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Its dooable, just tough.
 
EvertonGirl

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As people have mentioned you should not be playing 4nl with a $25.

You should start at 2nl with a BR of $40, then when you have crushed that level and got your BR $80 - $100 then go to 4nl.

Your best bet would be to play freerolls as you don't risk any of your BR and you could practice a winning strategy :)

GL @ the tables :)
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Right I will keep this very direct.

1) IMO you can start off at 4nl with a $25/£25 bankroll, I have done this numerous times.

2) You are not beating 4nl because you are not good enough, simple as.

This might be in terms of BRM, positional play, hand reading, tilt control etc....but the simple fact is you are not good enough right now, we know this because you keep losing money. When I realised I was not good enough to beat the micros it sparked me into action; to seek knowledge to improve.

3) I play 4nl/10nl. I have got to the point where I can beat 4nl for between £200 and £350 pcm.

4) Start playing just 2 tables imo, work on positional play and hand reading.

5) Watch training videos and post hand histories for review. IMO there is little point depositing again until you have greater knowledge that you can implement.

6) Start playing tight poker, you can add extra hands later on when you are a winning tag.

Good luck.
 
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erlanditas

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Yeah I recommend too start from 2nl first of all... If you get some profit then u can go playing NL4, because you jus 7months playing poker. Please try in 2NL TABLES!
 
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MickMurrr19

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4NL is the lowest stakes they have at carbon
 
Arjonius

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1) IMO you can start off at 4nl with a $25/£25 bankroll, I have done this numerous times.
Since you were willing to re-deposit, your BR wasn't $25. Don't confuse your BR with the amount you have on a site. Your BR is all the money you allocate to poker, no matter where / how it's split up. If I set aside $200 for poker and deposit $25, leaving $175 in my bank and/or my pocket, my BR is $200, not $25.

Since the OP was willing to re-deposit, he wasn't playing with a $25 BR. He lost because of insufficient skill, Depositing the entire amount he lost at one time would have made no difference assuming he played the same games. So poor BRM wasn't to blame, not even partially.
 
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hffjd2000

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If you cannot beat that game limit all the time, then theres nothing wrong to switch down or look other games and see what happens. Try all and select the game/games that you excelled in.
 
EvertonGirl

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4NL is the lowest stakes they have at carbon

That does suck that carbon only have 4nl as there lowest limit.

I hope you find a site that does have 2nl on their site as you really need to crush that level before you play 4nl

GL :)
 
twan2630

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4NL is.. the lowest stakes they have at carbon. i am not 100% but i think so :)
 
Arjonius

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I hope you find a site that does have 2nl on their site as you really need to crush that level before you play 4nl
While I recommend starting at the lowest level, starting higher isn't necessarily crazy. The key is being prepared and bankrolled for a longer and more expensive learning curve.
 
Bubbles

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While I tend to agree with everyone saying that he isnt good enough to beat 4nl and the bankroll management isnt the issue. There was 1 post overlooked. If he is playing different knowing that will have to re deposit and doesnt feel like it or whatever the reaosn is. He may be playing very tight or scared liek mentioned in the one post above.

This can cause him to lose as well. I think he would need to clarify hwo he plays when hes getting short. Do you tighten up, play scared. Dont make a bluff when its a good spot becasue you dont want to deposit agian if it doesnt work

these are all ways that can make you lose.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Since you were willing to re-deposit, your BR wasn't $25. Don't confuse your BR with the amount you have on a site. Your BR is all the money you allocate to poker, no matter where / how it's split up. If I set aside $200 for poker and deposit $25, leaving $175 in my bank and/or my pocket, my BR is $200, not $25.
.


I can see what you are saying, but I dont think this is the best idea for most non professional players.

Nobody really knows how much the intend to spend on poker should they need to deposit again. For that reason taking your poker account balance as bankroll is the most logical method.
 
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