Live Poker Strategy - Loose Games

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Every week I play a cash game with some buddies. They aren't terrible players, but there are few strong players there. Most of them are loose players, their is a lot of value from betting at them as they often call with weak hands, but they also fold sometimes to extremely aggressive plays. I switch it up with them and I am usually pretty successful. Although, I feel like I could be getting more..

What is the best strategy to implicate against some loose players who love to limp but aren't big fans of raised pots?

They aren't fans of raised pots pre-flop but nevertheless I will end up getting 1 or 2 callers nearly every time. Should I play tight and pick my spots? Or limp along and take them for value once I hit a big hand?

Later on in games they get a lot looser and play worse when it's nearing later into the night. Is this when I tighten up and take advantage of my spots?

Live is a newer phase of the game to me, as online i've been playing for years.

Any live tells you guys would like to throw at me would be greatly appreciated as well

Jillychemung · Jan 17, 2012

Need some more info on your game.

How long are your sessions? Can you estimate how many hands/hour you are seeing? How many players during the 'meat' of your session? Do you usually get your preferreed seat at the table or do you have to settle for whatevers available when you arrive? Are there any players changing seats to get position on you? Are you able to change seats to get position on the tightest/loosest players?

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Jillychemung said:
Need some more info on your game.

How long are your sessions? Can you estimate how many hands/hour you are seeing? How many players during the 'meat' of your session? Do you usually get your preferreed seat at the table or do you have to settle for whatevers available when you arrive? Are there any players changing seats to get position on you? Are you able to change seats to get position on the tightest/loosest players?

We usually play a 5 hour session or so I would say. The amount of players is usually around 8 or so, most of us leave all together. I settle for a seat but most of the time get position on one of the bigger donks. I am more or less the most feared person in the cash game so the players who know of position take a seat to my left if they can. I usually can not change position, once you begin that is where you sit for the rest of the night, who should I really be targeting to have position over? I like having position over the better players, but they are also the tighter players..

BlueNowhere · Jan 17, 2012

Get position on fish so you can iso them.

JusSumguy · Jan 17, 2012

My two biggest live tells are posture and betting patterns.

I get a lot out of posture.

Also, if they're eating and raising, you might wanna fold.

A big one, but it will usually only work on amateurs, is if they look at their stack as soon as they see their cards, or the flop. That usually means a big one.

Good luck and bulging bank rolls.

-

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Get a lot out of posture meaning like how so?

Which posture type means what?

And I was Iso'ing this one fish all night.. But he was getting the best of me as he wasn't folding to my aggression. Honestly I was setting him up for a big set of 3 barrel value bets, but a guy who's pretty much in equal skill level to me got him on it before I could, practically busting him.

JusSumguy · Jan 17, 2012

-Phil Ivey27 said:
Get a lot out of posture meaning like how so?

Which posture type means what?.

It depends. You have to watch em and they will tell you.

Some sit up straighter with a big one. Some try to slink under the table and get invisible.
But it one of those things that we do every time unless we tell ourselves not to.

-

gsxr5221 · Jan 17, 2012

Any type of subtle changes in their normal posture should tell you where you stand...For example if they are leaning back and are more carefree don't care too much then all of a sudden they get cards and lean forward showing a lot of interests in the hand.

Another thing to look at is always look to your left, a lot of amateur players will hold chips in their hand like they are going to be calling or raising or hold their cards away like they are folding.

The chip thing is fairly accurate like he stated earlier they will look at the flop then immediately down at their chips it usually means they got a good piece of the flop, however you'll see some ppl grab their chips like they are going to bet then check..this usually shows that they are weak/marginal and dont really want to be facing a raise/bet anywheres

Good luck in the game and hope you do well

LuckyChippy · Jan 17, 2012

Isolate the loose players IP, make value hands and bet. I don't see how it's any different to online.

Put them on a range and make +EV decisons againt that range.

clunnygrc · Jan 17, 2012

dont know about you but games with friends tend to be much looser and money floats to evry1 over time
therefore when i play with friends not really worried about winning or losing just having some fun maybe the so called fish feel the same?

Jillychemung · Jan 17, 2012

Some of your info is a bit contradictory with your descriptions of the players, you seem to have a number of good tight players and a lot of loose players, out of 7 players??

Anyway, you want the player that is most likely to donk away their stacks to your immediate right as your biggest consideration. If you have 1 or 2 tight players on your right between the stackinator that's 2nd best otherwise take the seat that has the tightest player to your left.

You will want to start out tight and build an image. Bet larger preflop with your big hands ($1/$2 game I play this would be open to $17) and show 1 or 2 of them if you get no callers. Stay away from completing in the SB or flating raises in the BB even when you know there will be 4-5 players, if you can't raise with your holdings here, fold. Play almost no hands from UTG & UTG+1. C-bet 3/4 to full pot most of your C-bets and pot most of the turns that you see. Convince the others that your a rock tonight but willing to play big pots with your big hands.

Then in the 2nd hour start opening up when you have a feel for how everyone's game is going. 3-bet more over the looser players raises with hands that do well against their range, flat a few 3-bets with your bigger hands against players that you have 3-bet before and limp more from SB & BB in multi-way pots with suited connectors. Open wider from UTG & UTG+1 and c-bet & double barrel flops that fit your image even if you haven't hit. Limp AA-QQ,AK from EP when you have a 80%+ read that LP or a blind will raise and then 3-bet big.

Once you have had to showdown a few hands that don't meet your earlier rock image then revert to the rock style.

Your keys here will be to listen to the table talk and watching ALL the action. What hands are your opponents putting you on? What hands are they showing down? Whose in a gambling mood? Who is reloading short and trying to rebuild with big pots preflop? Who is complaining more than usual about their bad luck? Who is running hot and playing hands they usually wouldn't?

I'm not big on physical tells, I just don't seem to recognize too many, like maybe 2-3 in a 6 hour session. You want to 'read the story' that your opponent is telling as best you can and keep your story consistent with what you have been building.

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Lucky- Different from online in a few ways: reads are different, and the amount of hands seen are greatly decreased. Therefore a little harder to simply play tight, get hands, and make moves accordingly.

clunny- everyone cares about winning money

The fish included.. People get mad when they are down, and are generally happy when they are up.

LuckyChippy · Jan 17, 2012

You don't "make moves" it's cash ffs. I'm not saying play tight at all, I'm saying isolate the fish liberally IP and take advantage of their post flop tendencies.

"Reads" only come into play when you have a close decision that could go either way imo.

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Jillychemung said:
Some of your info is a bit contradictory with your descriptions of the players, you seem to have a number of good tight players and a lot of loose players, out of 7 players??

Anyway, you want the player that is most likely to donk away their stacks to your immediate right as your biggest consideration. If you have 1 or 2 tight players on your right between the stackinator that's 2nd best otherwise take the seat that has the tightest player to your left.

You will want to start out tight and build an image. Bet larger preflop with your big hands ($1/$2 game I play this would be open to $17) and show 1 or 2 of them if you get no callers. Stay away from completing in the SB or flating raises in the BB even when you know there will be 4-5 players, if you can't raise with your holdings here, fold. Play almost no hands from UTG & UTG+1. C-bet 3/4 to full pot most of your C-bets and pot most of the turns that you see. Convince the others that your a rock tonight but willing to play big pots with your big hands.

Then in the 2nd hour start opening up when you have a feel for how everyone's game is going. 3-bet more over the looser players raises with hands that do well against their range, flat a few 3-bets with your bigger hands against players that you have 3-bet before and limp more from SB & BB in multi-way pots with suited connectors. Open wider from UTG & UTG+1 and c-bet & double barrel flops that fit your image even if you haven't hit. Limp AA-QQ,AK from EP when you have a 80%+ read that LP or a blind will raise and then 3-bet big.

Once you have had to showdown a few hands that don't meet your earlier rock image then revert to the rock style.

Your keys here will be to listen to the table talk and watching ALL the action. What hands are your opponents putting you on? What hands are they showing down? Whose in a gambling mood? Who is reloading short and trying to rebuild with big pots preflop? Who is complaining more than usual about their bad luck? Who is running hot and playing hands they usually wouldn't?

I'm not big on physical tells, I just don't seem to recognize too many, like maybe 2-3 in a 6 hour session. You want to 'read the story' that your opponent is telling as best you can and keep your story consistent with what you have been building.

I'd say out of the regular 8 players there are 5 poor players, and 3 good ones, including me. On top of that their are a few different players each time, and they also fit in to the category of poor play.

Love this advice. One problem I would say though with this is that they get looser later on.. Become greater gamblers later on, this is also when you're telling me I should be making my moves. I feel like they are more likely to totally dismiss my image and make worse moves later in the game.

Before I had created an image as a real over-aggro internet player, then I killed them with consistent bets when I had hands later on. This I say worked fairly well for me, but at times I was down.

bgomez89 · Jan 17, 2012

Grunch, are you saying people like to limp but fold to most raises preflop?

-Phil Ivey27 · Jan 17, 2012

Idk what Grunch means but yep they do, but regardless you will still end up with 1 or 2 callers at least, they love seeing flops, they just say things like "oh no! come on now Nick don't raise it, family pot!"

bgomez89 · Jan 17, 2012

Raise more pre with good hands

Jillychemung · Jan 18, 2012

-Phil Ivey27 said:
One problem I would say though with this is that they get looser later on.. Become greater gamblers later on, this is also when you're telling me I should be making my moves.

No this is when you tighten up again. Think of it as a bell curve, tight at the beginning and the end and looser in the middle.

When your opponents start to 'get their gamble on' you tighten up and increase the size of your bets and raises, overbet the pot on obvious draws, make them play for their whole stack to hit their flush. Yes your variance will go up a bit depending on their willingness to stack off but in the long run your profit will be greater.

Live Poker Strategy - Loose Games

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