Live Poker lingo, strategies, etiquette thread for

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baudib1

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I was thinking of recording this somehow, a glossary of poker terms, as well as some live play etiquette. Now with the problem with playing online, I'm sure a lot of people are going to start playing more live games, and this may be vaguely useful or entertaining.

These are some terms used in my games, so obviously regional lingo plays into this. Feel free to add or comment!

Bets:

Yo bet: $11, from craps

Double yo: $22

Michael Jordan: $23

Speed limit: $55

All you can eat: all in ldo, per Menh the Master

Hundo, a Buck: $100

Pepperonis: Red chips, which are worth $5; i.e. "Three pepperonis" = $15

Check in the dark, check blind, smoke a check: Check by the player first to act before the next card(s) are turned over. Dubious strategic value, but a lot of people do it.

Straddles: A straddle is a blind bet UTG that is effectively a third blind; meaning, the straddler, who typically acts first UTG, will instead close the action preflop. Many clubs place limits on the amount of the straddle, maxing it at 3x or 5x the BB. Some places do not; I've seen people straddle all in many times. If UTG straddles, UTG+1 has the option to re-straddle.
A Sleeper is a straddle that occurs after UTG; if it folds to the "sleeper" position, the straddle is on. A "Mississippi" is a straddle allowed by some clubs that occurs on the button -- obviously a titanic advantage; in some places it gives an even greater advantage because the Mississippi starts and ends the action preflop; i.e., when the Button Mississippis, the SB must decide to act first.


Aside:
Because most discussions, books and theories online revolve around online strategies, and no sites (that I know of) allow straddles in cash games, there's a lot of gray area as to whether or not it is +EV to straddle.

I generally don't straddle unless the game is exceptionally weak-tight, although it does negate some of your preflop positional advantage as UTG. Straddles generate action, a lot of times really sick action. Straddles put pressure on tight players. People who straddle the max are generally action junkies who are loathe to surrender their straddles.

Straddles create all sorts of problems, especially with SPR. In live games, preflop raises are generally MUCH larger than online; i.e. a 2x or 3x raise is generally not treated with any respect; 5x to 10x raises preflop are totally standard (in all of my games).

Let's say there is a LAG player who straddles to $15 in a $1-$3 game. UTG calls, 2 others call. You have TT on the button with a $300(100 BB) stack. There is already $64 in the pot. Do you limp along here? If so, you're going to get a 7-way flop with TT a ton of the time. Or, if you limp, the straddler LAG is going to see a ton of money in the pot and pop it to $60 with ATC. Then what?

I remember being in this spot once with TT, raised it to $70, only to see the tightest old guy at the table call in the SB, then UTG, who had limped, reraised. I mean, I am pretty sure I'm beat here a ton of the time (limping vs. the straddle UTG with monsters is incredibly common, because you expect someone to try a light steal or the straddler himself to raise) but there was so much friggin' money in the pot I couldn't see folding.

The 2%-3% of the time that you wake up with a nut range in the straddle are awfully nice though, because no one gives you credit for a hand when you raise your straddle.
 
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baudib1

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Running it twice (three times)/Doing business:
On TV, I always hear pros say, "Do you want to run it twice?"
In my area, everyone says "doing business." As in, "Do you do business?" "Do you want to do business?"

I'm sure everyone knows that there is no EV difference in running it once, twice or three times. However, running it multiple times reduces your variance. Let's face it, in times like this, when you're under serious bankroll pressure, lowering your variance is a good idea.

I generally always do it if they ask. Sometimes I ask. There are many players who never do business -- some feel that they lose their fold equity if people are always calling on draws or suspect you are on one.

Here's the thing: If the player is a bad player, he is going to give his money away anyway. But that's longterm. Immediate needs, like winning some money off him tonight, shouldn't be written off. So if he gets lucky and stacks you and then does a hit and run, that's money you may not see again.

Also, look, live poker is a social experience. Yes, it is more +EV to be as ruthless as possible on the felt. However, it is not +EV if you piss people at the table off, make them determined to get you or if they feel you're a total shark who just sees them as ATMs.

Be friendly, be a gentleman. This can sometimes pay off if they softplay you when they have you crushed. I have had this happen several times. "Look, cuz you were nice to me to run it three times when I had 3 outs, I'll tell you to fold now. You're beat."
 
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baudib1

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Tipping:
Remember to tip the dealers. It's always a good idea to be friends with dealers -- not so they can do some shady stuff, but a lot of dealers are players. Tons of people show dealers their cards when they muck. Dealers in turn have a better read on the table than anyone. If the dealer likes you, they may share this information.

However...

don't tip too much. $1 is standard, $2 for a large pot. I mean, if you win a
$1,200 pot on a two-outer on the river, give them a bit more, but don't go crazy.

I learned the hard way in doing this, but really, I see players give the dealer $15 tips on $100 pots that are already raked. This is frankly insane. At this rate the house is going to felt 2 players per hour, and that game is essentially unbeatable. It'd be like having Tom Dwan and Phil Ivey in your 6-max $1/$2 game.
 
JOEBOB69

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Also a lot of players live "chop" the blinds.Alot of players if every one has folded in front of them will chop the blinds which means both players take there money back an the button is moved.
On tipping don't over tip the waitress either that can get realy costly aswell.
 
bgomez89

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Also a lot of players live "chop" the blinds.

This, if you don't chop usually people hate you. Ive had a guy show me AQs when he was in the SB and he chopped with me.

Also as far as straddling goes, sometimes you can use it for you advantage. Live players HATE folding their straddles to raises(personally i've seen someone call a raise over their straddle with 62s), so if you have a good hand, raise it big to squeeze out some extra value.

Yes, tip the dealers(like marginal said 1-2 bucks is enough), they need the tips and usually most dealers are pretty good and will help you out.
 
Pascal-lf

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Don't slowroll. Or the table will hate you.

At cash tables (not tournaments) you can often choose whether to turn your hand over or not before the river if you want to. Doesn't make any difference if you do or not but don't try and demand that someone else does when they donn't have to.

Be friendly and chatty, and try and play some pots just to maintain an image. I remember playing with a huge fish at my local casino a while back who was giving me loads of action when I raised because I would happily limp half decent hands and because I was chatty - wouldn't fold his blind with ATC, etc etc. After I'd earnt a ton off him my mate then raised UTG with the fish in the BB; he snap folded a half decent hand because my mate had been sitting there with headphones on for an hour, not talking or playing many hands and he'd noticed. People are there for a good time; you'll get noticed more if your quiet than if you are talkative.

Don't try and pull in a pot when you win it. I've seen loads of new players try and pull in their own pots (especially in my local casino where most tournaments are player dealt so they haven't had much experience with dealers) and it'll annoy the dealer and the table because you'll slow things down. Let them sort out the pot, take the rake and then they'll push it over to you.
 
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I've played at parx my local casino twice last 2 weeks. I hadn't played live for awhile. I was suprised by how different it is. Its tru that there preflop raises r what online players would consider huge. 5 to 10x bb is common. I played 1,2 and first in would raise it up to 20 sometimes. Occasionally even more. But there post flop bets are usually too small. Like 10 dollar continuation bets in a 35 dollar pot for one example. So far I've had tough time adjusting to live game. First time I started out hot doubled my buy in and then lost it plus 3/4ths of my buy in when I hit bad streak and went about 4 hours without winning anything more than blinds. The last time I played I lost half my buy in which was around 100 bluffing when I got called 3 streets with 2nd pair and shitt kicker. Lost Another 70 when I got raised on turn. I gave the raiser credit for at least 2 pair and had to fold. Won a few pots then lost my last 110 wit JJ utg. I raised pre to 15. 4 yes 4 callers. 89T flop. I pushed and got called by BB who had QQ. He let 5 people see flop when he was last to act pre. It was a lil shock to me that he had queens. I don't get his play at all. But point is I've had a lil trouble so far in live games. Its only been twice so I hoping it will get better.
 
Debi

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I play mostly tournaments live - so there is another discussion there about tipping. In most of the tournaments you can purchase additional chips for a dealer tip which almost everyone does. So - there is debate about tipping when you cash and how much that should be. I am never sure how much to give them - I do always give them something. It seems that most do between 5-10%.

The other thing I found is that after spending hours in tournaments every day when I would hit the cash tables it was extremely hard to remember to tip when I won a pot. You don't do that in tournaments so I struggled with remembering. Sometimes I would remember a few hands later and do it - but sometimes the dealer had already changed. I need to come up with a reminder of some sort lol.
 
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Straddles: A straddle is a blind bet UTG that is effectively a third blind; meaning, the straddler, who typically acts first UTG, will instead close the action preflop. Many clubs place limits on the amount of the straddle, maxing it at 3x or 5x the BB. Some places do not; I've seen people straddle all in many times. If UTG straddles, UTG+1 has the option to re-straddle.
A Sleeper is a straddle that occurs after UTG; if it folds to the "sleeper" position, the straddle is on. A "Mississippi" is a straddle allowed by some clubs that occurs on the button -- obviously a titanic advantage; in some places it gives an even greater advantage because the Mississippi starts and ends the action preflop; i.e., when the Button Mississippis, the SB must decide to act first.

The Rio in Vegas does that and its absolutely ludicrous...it basically violates the rules of poker...its bad enough being in the SB to begin with...now you basically get screwed over doubly...the way it SHOULD go if you are going allow the button to straddle is that the action starts UTG...goes to the cut-off, then jumps to the SB/BB and finally the button...if the button then decides he is going to raise you again start the action from UTG...its both unfair and moronic to have the blinds acting first pre-flop...the other option is to allow the straddles from everywhere BUT the button to prevent this...many casinos I have been to which allow staddles from positions other than just UTG do not allow it from the button...as a matter of fact the Rio was the only one I saw that did allow the button straddle....my guess is that in the U.S. 70% of casinos allow straddles....55% of those only allow it from UTG....10% allow it from any position but the button and 5% allow it from all positions.
 
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fkucdaw0rld

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i mostly play at the borgata in Atlantic city, and they technically don't allow straddling, but call it a blind bet...the difference being that u don't get the option to raise it if it is called before it gets back to you...all u can do is let it ride or call someone else's raise...i have no idea why they do this and i dont remember any dealer explaining it to me either...made no sense to me but it's not that big an issue...
 
Pascal-lf

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That's not a straddle then, that's just a blind min raise
 
tpb221

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The other thing I found is that after spending hours in tournaments every day when I would hit the cash tables it was extremely hard to remember to tip when I won a pot. You don't do that in tournaments so I struggled with remembering. Sometimes I would remember a few hands later and do it - but sometimes the dealer had already changed. I need to come up with a reminder of some sort lol.

I do this all the time.
On chopping the blinds. You should either always chop or never chop. It's not polite to switch it up. I haven't seen people get mad or anything if you say you don't chop but if you chop once then next time don't people think your playing games and they don't like that.
 
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fkucdaw0rld

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i've always wondered what was so wrong about asking a person to show what they bet with if they wana muck it...i've seen people on tv talk about how its not proper etiquette, but if you're willing to bet on a bluff that bad, you should b willing to respect the fact that i made the call, and show me what u had...the better has to show his hand when he calls doesnt he? so basically by this logic i should b able to muck my hand behind and just scoop the pot, never showing my hand to be eligible to win it...but they say the winning hand has to show? i think its a stupid 'etiquette' rule
 
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bgomez89

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i've always wondered what was so wrong about asking a person to show what they bet with if they wana muck it...i've seen people on tv talk about how its not proper etiquette, but if you're willing to bet on a bluff that bad, you should b willing to respect the fact that i made the call, and show me what u had...the better has to show his hand when he calls doesnt he? so basically by this logic i should b able to muck my hand behind and just scoop the pot, never showing my hand to be eligible to win it...but they say the winning hand has to show? i think its a stupid 'etiquette' rule

if you call, they have to show their hand i think. Personally, when I make a call in a live game, i won't show my hand until they see theirs.

On the flip side if I make a bet and they call, i always show my hand first and if they muck, i never ask because of the etiquette thing
 
brank

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if you call, they have to show their hand i think. Personally, when I make a call in a live game, i won't show my hand until they see theirs.

On the flip side if I make a bet and they call, i always show my hand first and if they muck, i never ask because of the etiquette thing

You cant ask to see a hand if you've been called, it has nothing to do with etiquette. Its a pay to see kind of thing.

The reason its bad etiquette to ask to see a hand when someone wants to muck after being called is because its considered a needle to the player.

This seems to happen more in tourneys then in cash games because the info is so much more valuable at the time.
 
bgomez89

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You cant ask to see a hand if you've been called, it has nothing to do with etiquette. Its a pay to see kind of thing.
???? Yeah you can... that's why when someone calls my river bet and muck on PS, i just hit the replay button and I can see what they had...
 
ythelongface

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I dont think this is a big issue really, but since I watched a guy at my 1/2 NL table do it 3 times in a half hour Thursday, I thought I wouuld mention it..... dont do change seats at the table to avoid paying your blind(s).... Once, nobody will think much of it, but if you hop around from seat to seat and your avoiding your blinds(even if that is not your intent), this is generally considered bad form. Yes you can do it... the casino is not likely to say anything, but that doesnt mean its kosher.
 
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fkucdaw0rld

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I dont think this is a big issue really, but since I watched a guy at my 1/2 NL table do it 3 times in a half hour Thursday, I thought I wouuld mention it..... dont do change seats at the table to avoid paying your blind(s).... Once, nobody will think much of it, but if you hop around from seat to seat and your avoiding your blinds(even if that is not your intent), this is generally considered bad form. Yes you can do it... the casino is not likely to say anything, but that doesnt mean its kosher.

in my live experience the dealer always tells the person who's moving to wait until the button passes before changing seats? thats strange that they would allow someone to just avoid the blinds like that...

and about the asking to see someone's cards wen you call them, i understand why its considered needling i guess, but still...wtf? if i make a river bet and am called, no matter if im bluffing or not i immediately turn over my cards without saying anything (unless i have the nuts, in which case i announce i have the nuts)...i dont act all shy like aw you caught me just take the pot....a person shouldnt b allowed to avoid a rule just because he feels shy about getting caught in a bluff...especially if i have to show what i called with, which i think gives a lot more (valuable) info than showing what you bet with
 
ythelongface

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in my live experience the dealer always tells the person who's moving to wait until the button passes before changing seats? thats strange that they would allow someone to just avoid the blinds like that...

and about the asking to see someone's cards wen you call them, i understand why its considered needling i guess, but still...wtf? if i make a river bet and am called, no matter if im bluffing or not i immediately turn over my cards without saying anything (unless i have the nuts, in which case i announce i have the nuts)...i dont act all shy like aw you caught me just take the pot....a person shouldnt b allowed to avoid a rule just because he feels shy about getting caught in a bluff...especially if i have to show what i called with, which i think gives a lot more (valuable) info than showing what you bet with
Yeah.. I dont know why they didnt say something to him....they are not as consistent as they should be in regards to that type of thing.. I dont expect them to catch everything, but dont want to see too much slide either.
 
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baudib1

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It's considered really bad to ask to see a hand if they bluff river, you call and they muck. There are long threads on 2+2 about this and almost all older live players consider it terrible etiquette.
I have played in tournaments where the bettor on the river must expose his hand.
 
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