live cash games what to expect?

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redvulture61

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I am planning on playing in some live cash games for 2/4 at a casino with a few friends next weekend. I want advice and answers to my questions from members on CC who have had experience playing live for cash, especially one who do it regularly. What should i be expecting overall? Is the competition softer? Remember this is coming from a person with no live experience. Will my experience online translate well to real world games? Are people more willing to gamble? What else?
 
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Page TheRage

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I don't know really what you can expect, every places and players are differents.. I am playing in casinos and special poker places and it is never the same level of play...

There is what I can suggest you...
1- Do no expect to win money at all.. this is your first time...
2- Do not play with real friends on the same table.. poker buddies only...
3- Wait for the BB, do not post. Take a little time to check the play at the table...
4- Play your game as usual.
5- Have fun, the rest will follow!
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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$2-4??? Limit or NL? Expect everything. In order to succeed you need to take like the first 30 minutes and focus on defining the players. Figure out who is going to be your ATM.

You will notice a lot of them just want to see the flop holding anything from AA to 34o. VPiP's above 50 will be common. This is why raising preflop is imperative. Probably at first they wont like you doing this so they will fold. After a little bit thy start calling - even huge raises.

Be patient. Not just waiting for hands but also each decision. Coming from online you are probably used to moving quickly. You will miss a lot doing this live. Take your time.

If this is a limit game expect a bunch of calling stations so forget about bluffing. In fact in NL at this level they are always seeing a bluff at every street so use this sparingly.

Be keenly aware of your table image. Everyone will be able to see and hear you.

There will probably be 2 or 3 players at your table who are pretty good. Know who they are.

If the kindly guy with grey hair starts barreling then he probably has the nuts or close to it.
 
tenbob

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Its gonna be a limit game.

Dont bluff, value the the crap out of good hands, win money.
 
MediaBLITZ

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If this is a limit game then count on being the odd man out. In other words they will play WAY too many hands. If you can resist the temptation of joining them (instead of beating them) and exercise your ability to fold trouble hands then you should be okay.
 
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redvulture61

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If this is a limit game then count on being the odd man out. In other words they will play WAY too many hands. If you can resist the temptation of joining them (instead of beating them) and exercise your ability to fold trouble hands then you should be okay.

It's not a limit game its NL. Screw limit holdem, its the most boring game on the planet.
 
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JusSumguy

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$2-4??? Limit or NL? Expect everything. In order to succeed you need to take like the first 30 minutes and focus on defining the players. Figure out who is going to be your ATM.

You will notice a lot of them just want to see the flop holding anything from AA to 34o. VPiP's above 50 will be common. This is why raising preflop is imperative. Probably at first they wont like you doing this so they will fold. After a little bit thy start calling - even huge raises.

Be patient. Not just waiting for hands but also each decision. Coming from online you are probably used to moving quickly. You will miss a lot doing this live. Take your time.

If this is a limit game expect a bunch of calling stations so forget about bluffing. In fact in NL at this level they are always seeing a bluff at every street so use this sparingly.

Be keenly aware of your table image. Everyone will be able to see and hear you.

There will probably be 2 or 3 players at your table who are pretty good. Know who they are.

If the kindly guy with grey hair starts barreling then he probably has the nuts or close to it.

Succinct perfection. :congrats:


:icon_salu
 
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redvulture61

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Succinct perfection. :congrats:


:icon_salu

Mediablitz always makes the most high quality posts on this site. Seems like a really knowledgeable member and skilled player in both MTTs and cash from what i have seen.
 
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redvulture61

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So to sum it up it was an interesting affair. I ended up winning $400 on the night on poker while my buddy about $250 although i ended up loosing halve of my winning on roulette as did he. It sucks i know but anyway time for the good stuff. To start of with, the play at my table was pretty horrific. I had never seen such a diverse a array of fish in my life. There was one guy on my table who had to see every flop some regardless if you raised it 10x the big blind he would come along with you. There was a spewtard who ended up being very profitable. He would literally raise every hand. Although i did have my pocket aces cracked by his 8,6 offsuit not fun at all but to be expected against a maniac who's running hot. Also, there was a lot of limp calling which i found hilarious. This made the pots multiway, which complicated things at times, but i think i played them well. Reflecting on it, this is a leak in my game because i have always found multiway pots against 4 or 5 limp callers hard to play, because its impossible to make solid reads on their holdings.

There was also some random weak tight player to my left on the table who would only play AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK who you could steal the blinds just about every orbit. The funny thing was when he raised you knew to get out of the way even the aggrodonk did because you knew he had the nut. Overall most were hybrid calling stations/aggrodonks with a 1 or 2 good players on the table. The good thing was, i didn't have to play these guys much and when i did the pots were pretty action less because we could both tell where each other stood. Anyway, playing live if definitely something i look to do more often it was a fun experience but would of been better if i didn't loose halve my money at roulette. I can't help myself buy play it, its an addicting and exciting game.
 
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MediaBLITZ

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Also, there was a lot of limp calling which i found hilarious. This made the pots multiway, which complicated things at times, but i think i played them well. Reflecting on it, this is a leak in my game because i have always found multiway pots against 4 or 5 limp callers hard to play, because its impossible to make solid reads on their holdings.

And I reiterate - "You will notice a lot of them just want to see the flop holding anything from AA to 34o. VPiP's above 50 will be common. This is why raising preflop is imperative."
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Mediablitz always makes the most high quality posts on this site. Seems like a really knowledgeable member and skilled player in both MTTs and cash from what i have seen.
Stop it - you're embarassing me.
 
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DisRuptive1

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I've played a bit of live cash games after playing online a lot and have found it quite comfortable. The stakes are higher but once you get your feet wet, it's quite comfortable, and in my opinion, even easier to win than online. Here are some tips.

Make sure you have at least three buy-ins for every 6 hours you plan to play (if not more). There are many legitimate reasons why a good player can lose a buy in. You want a back up in case your pre-flop raises don't hit the flop. Calling other people's raises can cost you some money too. Also, make sure you're comfortable with losing your buy-ins (never gamble money you can't afford to lose). The best way to increase your stack of chips is to be confortable throwing it away.

I personally prefer buying in for the minimum amount of chips and building my stack. This minimizes the loss if I shove pre-flop and lose. At the blind level you mentioned, I'd probably buy in for $100-$150 at a time, and stop after losing $400-$600 worth of buy ins within 6 hours of play. You really shouldn't be bleeding a lot of money unless you get a bunch of big hands because you're going to...

Play tight; play very, very tight. If you're playing with $2 and $4 blinds, that means it's only $6 for the button to go around the table. A dealer will get out a hand approximately every 2 minutes, so you can expect to see 30 hands an hour. With 10 players at the table, that's 3 rotations of the button around the table which means it will cost you $18 an hour to play. Expect to fold a lot of hands. The blinds never go up and there are unlimited rebuys.

Don't be a douche. Tip the employees who are serving you. Give the pretty waitresses who bring you your free drinks a buck for every drink. Whenever you win a pot, give your dealer a buck or two. If you give him two, he'll notice; most people only tip a buck no matter how big the pot is. Both dealers and waitresses get paid crap and deal with crap all day. They'll treat you nice no matter what, but their niceness will be genuine when you tip. Plus, you're playing a game where you can expect to make a profit easily. Share some of that wealth with the people that make it possible.

Stop bluffing, stop c-betting, stop check-raising. It's not very effective and won't work the way you want it to. Check raising scares the fish and will kill your action. Bluffing will either cost you money or win you pots that you would have won by checking. You don't need to hide your hand with consistent C-bets because no one is going to know what you have when you range your bet based on the strength of your hand which brings us to...

Bet the strength of your hand. If your hand is really good, raise pre-flop and see what you get. If it's not that good pre-flop then just limp. If it's weak and someone raises, you should fold. Don't expect to beat someone after the flop with a weak hand when a stronger hand, held by a fish, is going to call you all the way to the river. If you do call a raise with a weak hand, you're not much better than a donkey player.

When your hand does hit the flop, determine if you've got the best hand and what kind of draws are out there. Fish love chasing flushes. They also will play any Ace and some will play any King. Bet enough so that good players draws and high card-rags will fold. A fish with those hands will follow if you keep it cheap. They don't understand the concept of odds and they don't know how much is in the pot (a big pile of chips in the pot will encourage them to call for more money-use this to your advantage when you've got a good hand). If you suspect another player has a better hand than you, just check; fish like to check, because betting is scary to them. Donkeys and smart players will bet the strength of their hand. The money you make will come from when you hit the flops hard and build a huge pot (I can easily see a pot reaching $500 with only other player, so save your money for when you get one of those pot-building hands).

Don't be afraid to fold hands that don't hit the flop right. It's only $18 an hour to play. Most of the money you'll lose will be due to over betting hands or betting on marginal hands. Don't do it. If you've got middle or bottom pair with an Ace on the board and some donkey/fish is betting, fold. Winning money in poker comes from having the best hands. Profiting from poker comes from folding hands that you're not going to win with.

Pay attention. Figure out what type of players you're playing against and watch what hands they show at show down. You probably won't be able to establish a perfect range, but you can make broad generalizations about the type of player they are based on the hands they limp with and call raises with (I'd ignore the hands they play in the big blind). You can quickly determine if they are a fish that will call all the way to the river with middle pair or a donkey who will call with anything or a good player who shows down with pocket pairs and high cards.

Your brain will pay more attention than you. Your brain picks up a lot of information that you don't realize. When you're trying to decide whether another player is bluffing or not, your brain is going to make a decision. The decision it makes will be correct more often when you're paying attention. It's not something difficult you have to do. Just watch the game. Figure out whose turn it is, determine what the nuts for the board is, what other kinds of hands would want to make a bet with that kind of a board, what your hand would have been if you limped, what you think the betting player has, etc. Pretty much be involved in the game and your reads will be better than if you played Angry Birds on your phone (I love the players who occupy themselves with their phones or friends or the sports game while playing at my table).

Don't play when tired, drunk, high on caffeine (or other drugs) or on tilt. Get up and go do something else. Come back when you're concentration is not affected negatively.

Be a good player. Not good at the game, but a good person. Bring honor to your hobby by respecting the other players at the table along with the dealer, the floor person/people, and the waitresses. If a mistake happens, bring it up so it can be corrected. Don't let a player win a pot that another player should have won because the dealer and player misread the hands.

Poker without money is very dull. Winning money from other players is part of the game (as well as losing money to them). Don't be a dick when you win and don't be a dick when you lose. Accept that you won/lost, keep your mouth shut, and move on to the next hand. Don't apologize for winning and don't berate other players or the dealer for losing a hand that favored you. You can be respectful and polite to other players as you take their money away from them.

Don't teach others how to be better players. This includes berating them for making bad plays. It is bad for the rest of us if you improve the collective knowledge of the player base that we play with. It ultimately hurts your bottom line when you help others to become better players.

If the game allows it, I suggest you allow pots to be chopped pre-flop if the other player wants it and the board to be run twice if another player requests it. You'll probably find yourself in situations where you will want the pot to be chopped or you want the board to be run twice. You're more likely to get other players to allow this if you also allow it. Remember also, you're going to make your money when both you and one other player wants to put money into the pot. When the other player doesn't want to put money in the pot (and wants to chop instead), you're not going to make money.
 
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Four Dogs

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Pretty good advice above for the most part but I'll respectfully disagree with 2 points.

Continuation bets work better live than online. Most online players are well aware that a CB is just that and doesn't always signify strength. Most live players are not as savy and as mentioned earlier will call just about any raise with any hand. Most of those will miss the flop. When they do they are more than willing to let it go. Raising small preflop makes for an affordable CB. If you get called well, then you have to reevaluate the situation.

The second point I meanhave issue with is the limping. Sure, if you've got a small pair or a nice suited connector and the pot has already been opened, by all means join the limpfest. Flopped sets pay off well live and your almost always get good odds to chase draws. But if you're opening the pot, just raise. And by raise i mean something reasonable, 3 or 4 big blinds, not these ridiculous 10 bb raises you see from live players. If your in late position you might just take it down without a fight, and if you don't the preflop raise will make it easier to take it down post flop.
 
Click2payme

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valuable advice from everyone... 2-4 .. They gonna be much more aggressive than 1-2. Wait for a premium hand and pick good spots. Dont let some of the players overly aggressive ways put you on tilt because quite frankly some people have money to throw away lol and what I have learned there are more of those types at 2-4 or 2-5 tables. good luck
 
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