Live Cash - Dealers colluding with Players

S

subsinind

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Total posts
305
Chips
0
As the title says, it makes me tilt sometimes when dealers collude with players.

1) Where I play in the midwest at 1/2 live stakes, there are lots of friends/family members of dealers playing along in the table.

When I raise and the guy has no idea why I am raising and the dealer making funny faces as if that's something to take note of.

2) When I win the hand without showing my cards (if everyone folded or when I make the call to the bet and they instantly fold), the dealer mucks all the other players cards with the lot (of cards) but then puts my card in the end of the pack with face up so that other players on the opposite side of dealers can easily see what my cards are. This is in the process of arranging the cards that they knowingly show what mine or some player who won without showdown.

It is the most annoying and cheating collusion that I have witnessed.

3) making different rules to support one of their friends (reg/someone they know) and calling the floor and getting a decision in their favor.

4) When a player leaves the table, the dealer instantly talks about how that player normally is super nit or such with their friends.

5)Talking with the friends about how the other table is super crazy and which player is playing loose and passing information for other to help them choose a easy table

I want to know how we can report it to the state commission who oversees all this behavior of the casino.

The dealer's job is to just ****ing deal it and take the tips but do you ****ing have to tip these mofos/bitches?

Never talked about but very common in the casinos in the midwest. Have you guys seen other ways they cheat or collude?
 
vinnie

vinnie

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Total posts
1,208
Awards
1
US
Chips
50
I don't have good solutions for most of these, especially if the floor sides with them. I can answer the question about tips. You do not need to tip dealers that are bad. I would be sure you tip the other dealers well, so it's obvious that you're not cheap. They'll get the hint. Can't promise they will change their behavior, but you don't need to tip them.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
II think you misinterpret friendly for colluding.

Everywhere i play, dealers chime in on players etc and its completely normal.
 
S

subsinind

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Total posts
305
Chips
0
6) Dealers checking your mucked hand and when questioned what/why - they reply they can see it because they are dealers.

I mean what is the use of mucking a hand?
 
P

PKRNRS

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Total posts
718
Chips
0
Sounds like you need to speak to someone above the floor person or your state's gaming agency
 
detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Total posts
826
Awards
4
Chips
0
II think you misinterpret friendly for colluding.

Everywhere i play, dealers chime in on players etc and its completely normal.
It shouldnt be because its very wrong.

You should report it right away to room managers and if that doesnt help go to the State GC. This should not happen....if it is happening as you say.

I live in midwest and this is the first I have heard of this.
 
S

splitspuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Firekeepers $1/2 cash cheating dealers

I have caught and brought it to managements attention of dealers working with players. And possibly two people at the table working together with the dealers help. I can’t confirm with the same level of confidence on a 3rd person working together with the dealer and other guy just because maybe his multiple preflop raises that he called from the guy I’m certain was helped by the dealer are just a coincidence. Sure ppl call $50 preflop with hands like K2 not even sooooted all the time in lower limits. But to win these hands off the same guy every time and never going to showdown made me wonder. I noticed all this after merging tables and noticing a player in the 10 seat exchanging numbers with this lady dealer before making our table move. I thought this was inappropriate instantly. Others disagree with me. I find it a conflict of interests in a way Tho. Since we all are playing for money and that isn’t the time or place to exchange numbers given the situation of what we all are doing in my opinion.

So we finally merge tables and I instantly notice the cellphone guy who I’ll call Romeo ran to get seat 10 again since they didn’t make us flip for seats or anything. Being suspicious and enjoying investigating things that seem odd is how my brain is wired and I notice things that most people overlook. So I instantly took a mental note to keep a closer eye on what is going on sincethe 10 seat is a great spot to sit if a dealer was second dealing or any other forms of dirty dealing.

Then over the next couple hours I noticed multiple things that made me positive that this lady dealer was working with Romeo. And this isn’t the first dealer or time at firekeepers I’ve been suspicious of cheating.

Romeo won large pots for hours while the lady he exchanged numbers with was dealing and only during her sessions.
Once she would go on break was when a lot of the chips he won seemed to be intentionally dumped to the other guy calling only Romeos huge preflop raises with junk from what I noticed. And I only noticed this cause the guy accidentally turned his cards over one time and a sloppy dealer put them on the bottom of the deck and I noticed rags again with the dealer flipped the cards on side to get them in order.
Every time the lady dealer went on break, Romeo would also leave the table except the times he would raise huge preflop and dump to the other guy in my opinion at least. But Romeo definitely didn’t win and would leave the table every single time she wasn’t dealing.
These last couple things convinced me of the cheating because I’m logical and can usually paint a pretty good picture with the facts I’m given. The dealer noticed the anger in my face and she really gave away some info when I commented how she was Romeos lucky charm after he had just won another huge pot while she was dealing. I said it with a certain tone that would go unnoticed by a clean dealer but just right to trigger some form of tell from a dirty dealer of her caliber. A old time hustler wouldn’t of flinched but I knew she wasn’t and she visibly became more anxious immediately after my comment and avoiding all eye contact with me for the next 5-10 mins of saying it.
I’ll sum up why I’m convinced of the cheating for sure now as this is getting long and these things ended my days at firekeepers until management conctacts me back with some kind of response since I let them know. The first thing is while Romeos lady friend was dealing I heard him quietly say what happened there and she tried to quietly say that we have to keep a happy balance because some people aren’t happy. She could clearly see my anger at this point and even looked at me after making these comments to him and I think it was by accident when she looked at me. Probably more of an involuntary, anxious, guilt driven look out the corner of her eyes towards me and instantly looking away when she noticed I was just listening and watching the whole time. But anyways the final thing that I noticed happening that night is without question how I know she was cheating and everything else just helped point out with what player. She was a sloppy dealer and her mechanics were horrible. The second card dealing was obvious enough that someone 4 tables away could see it cause of how big of gap she had between the top cards. Probably a quarter inch at times. Then ad that with the pace of her deal while approaching Romeo while she was dealing was obviously slower and less smooth. But the hangers she had while approaching him were enough for any person that’s been around cards to grab her hand like when Worm got busted in the movie rounders. I decided the casino would frown upon grabbing their dealers hand and I left to soak in everything as I was unsure what to do and I wanted to be 100% sure before saying anything. I knew what happened but my personality makes me second guess everything and I never like to open my mouth even while being sure, just because I second guess so much and can’t stand the thought of being wrong when I talk to people about anything. I don’t even like writing this but I can’t stand cheaters in the game I love more than anything else to do and have spent sooooooo many hours of my life studying, playing, and just being around the poker scene world. So I’m writing this in hopes that more players will start keeping an eye out for cheaters and especially in the Midwest where the towns are smaller and everybody knows everyone.

I also would like any advice on how to take it further in the investigation of this dirty dealer and who to contact. I’m thinkikg that maybe the casino wants to keep a certain image and a thing like this would hurt that badly. Especially as big as the poker scene is becoming at firekeepers and the growing player pool registering for their larger tournaments. I think they might have some of the biggest prize pools in the Midwest or farther on just their regular monthly bigger buyin tournaments. I know they are getting 6 figure prize pools and they keep growing the last I checked. So any info on how to proceed handling this would be appreciated. Cause they haven’t been helpful and I even said just look at your cameras and who was dealing the whole night Romeo kept winning. And before anyone comments saying a badbeat sore loser story is all I have going on. I’m millions of hands into this world, a badbeat is just as normal as tying my shoes after millions of hands, and I didn’t leave the room a loser that night. Just hate cheating.
I
 
L

LIONINSIDE

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Total posts
12
Chips
0
Poker Room Manager-> MGCB

^^^ Just checked for you- Firekeeper's Poker Room Manager's name is listed on the Bravo Poker App. Contact him/her and they should clean up this problem. If your suspicions are confirmed hopefully the dealers/cheats get reported to the Gaming Control Board and never get a casino job ever again.
 
S

smokeytje

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Total posts
11
Chips
0
be sure that also in the known pokersoftwares scam is there...
i know of 2 who ever where busted, not easy to prove, they might all do it
 
Mikeisanace777

Mikeisanace777

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Total posts
150
Chips
0
It's not he is dealing from the bottom of the deck just demand that you no longer show mucked cards to anyone and let the game play fair.
 
R

Running Nose II

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Total posts
572
Chips
0
Some friendly game! Have you called the dealer out for his bad manners. Formally complain to a higher authority and have his licence revoked
 
D

Dogwisddom

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Total posts
16
Chips
0
Sounds like a horrible poker room do you have other options?
 
S

splitspuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Pokersoftwares scam?

Never heard of that scam. How does it work?
 
S

splitspuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Bottom deck

It's not he is dealing from the bottom of the deck just demand that you no longer show mucked cards to anyone and let the game play fair.

She wasn’t dealing from the bottom. Second card dealing. Sloppy dealers or dirty dealers do leave a winning persons hand at the bottom when gathering the cards after a hand and when they put them on the side to work the deck into a squared up stack. The dealer will be exposing the winning players mucked cards since they put them at the bottom while gathering the cards and once all cards are gathered they turn them on the side to straighten them all out and the winners hand will be shown. I’ve called numerous dealers out on this.
 
S

splitspuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Yes

Some friendly game! Have you called the dealer out for his bad manners. Formally complain to a higher authority and have his licence revoked

I’m currently going through the proper channels to formally complain. I think it could be a larger scam than just one dealer. Kinda like the rigged tournament scam that happened in Florida. It’s an Indianan ran casino though and from what I’ve looked up online. The casino is governed by some Indian organization. I’m just worried they will protect their own so the casino doesn’t get a bad rep since it’s one of the bigger and busiest casinos in the area. I know one of the dealers is no longer there cause he dealt 3 badbeat jackpots in a month and all during the very early morning hours with hardly anyone playing. So his cut was bigger from the badbeat. But they do have the most generous badbeat I’ve ever heard of. Aces over jacks is the qualifying hand to beat for it.
 
S

splitspuce

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Yes

Sounds like a horrible poker room do you have other options?

Yes I’ve been going to Hollywood casino in Toledo, Ohio the last few weeks and loving it. It’s a longer driver, but the play is very soft. Soft enough that you can tell a person they have 88 with nothing but paint on the board and they will still call $300 in bets. Seen more pots taken down with 7,8,9 high than I’ve seen since party poker days. And these are at the showdown with gut shot dreamers and guys that don’t get those pocket 2s are junk after the board has counterfeited twice. A lot of rich ppl live close by and their kids are helping spread the wealth. :)
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
Obviously dealers shouldn't be colluding with players and this does happen, so I'm sympathetic to your complaints.

however, some of your complaints don't sound like collusion to me. they sound like sloppy dealers and/or friendly dealers.

dealers are not robots and are allowed to have friends and a social life. most adults make new friends from their workplace. both from co-workers and customers/clients.

I am friends with many poker dealers and it's not any kind of an angle on my part. I like certain kinds of people and we happen to spend a lot of time in the same places. it is completely normal for us to talk about hands and players and for the dealer to give me their opinions on certain players or tell me interesting or crazy hands they saw. They will also warn me about players they think are shady or dealers they think are shady. But this always happens away from the table and usually away from the casino.

However, some aspects of the game DO need to be rigorously protected and hole card information is crucial. It would be inappropriate for a dealer to tell me the hole cards of any of my opponents (even away from the table) if it weren't public knowledge already. for instance, some players when making a tight fold will show the dealer and nobody else. My dealer friends should never tell me these hands (and they don't).

But sometimes an opponent will show down a hand and then a day later or something I'll forget what the hand was and if I happen to be re-telling that hand over beers or at dinner and my dealer friend corrects the action or recalls the hole cards, that is completely fine, IMO as long as it was public knowledge.

IMO, this is no different than having poker player friends who give you information about your opponents (and this happens all the time too). Whenever I make a final table I've got all kinds of people texting me information about my opponents. And it's totally fine and ethical as long as it's not dealers that are currently dealing that tournament....that's just part of the poker world and having a strong social network is important for success in just about any line of work.
 
Last edited:
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Total posts
2,250
Chips
0
I agree with OP dealers job is to just deal.I stopped tipping and playing live when I figured out the 10% rake with bad beat jackpot tax is unbeatable unless you have serious donks. Don't confuse revenues for profits remember you are guaranteed to lose and win hands in NLH.

OP tell management what you see....the dealer is not suppose to discuss players.
 
S

spaceslave

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Total posts
18
Chips
0
If casino really has done nothing or atleast stop this when you are currently playing you should avoid this casino. Possibly try to seek also assistance or help from the gaming authority that monitors this establishment. However you might get blacklisted in that casino and others....
 
C

chillybilly62

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Total posts
1
Chips
0
I quit playing cuz of this

I contacted the gaming commission once about some obvious dealer player collusion in one particular room. I gave specific times of incidents and exactly what happened so they could cross reference tapes. I gave them names including the name of the floor person who refused to do anything and even suggested I dont play there anymore if I didnt like it. I observed players always getting the same seat every time and winning with certain dealers while taking lengthy breaks when those dealers left. I observed dealers rolling the deck (to flash cards) and holding it high while dealing, flashing other players cards as they were dealt, talking in hushed whispers with the one and/or ten seats during hands, and a lot of other stuff but to keep it short........ What do you think the idiots at the gaming commision did?.......They forwarded my complaint to THE VERY FLOOR PERSON WHO WAS ALLOWING THIS CRAP TO HAPPEN and requested HE investigate. How do I know this? The idiot confronted me about it a couple months later when i went there to see if anything had changed. (He has since been fired though I dont know why). For now I have quit playing cuz I have seen enough questionable stuff way too often to feel comfortable playing anymore. Its too stressful to monitor the game while I am trying to beat the game. Do you honestly think the "fish" who called your shove with a four outer and hits and stacks you is that big of an idiot and just got lucky? Nope. They knew what the river was going to be. I see it way too often for it to be a coincidence. And.....now that the games are getting a lot harder than they used to be 10 to 15 years ago its happening a lot more.
 
R

redwards92

never going to move up
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Total posts
2,234
Awards
1
Chips
8
As someone who has dealt in a casino before, I was told to always wash the cards and then square them up facing the players to avoid any shadiness or suspicion that I could be cheating in any form or way.

Although I never purposely put the winning hand at the bottom I’m sure it happened sometimes.
 
Real Money Poker - Real Money Casinos Organize a Home Poker Game
Top