Limping with monsters

Having read the posts on here about ring games v/s tourneys I've recently been trying my hand at ring games .... and suprised myself by doing alright at 25/50 nl (up about $400 so far). One thing I notice difference is the times players limp with monster, is this normal?? correct??, I've always raised with KK, QQ, AK ect and I'm finding I'm losing a few hands at showdown. I will try and paste some hands when I get a chance... Thanks

The odea is to get the most value out of your hand. I will min raise in most cases before I would limp. Position matters a lot here. If I am late and hve all limpers I have to raise at least once with monsters like KKK and AA. I might call or check with QQ JJ or AK though. The next time I have this same hand I have to play it differently anyway....right?

I wouldnt say its corect.

Its better winning a small pot then losing a big one. Not much players can

fold KK or AA, sometimes even if they know they are beat. Slowplaying is a long term 100% busto

If you are losing hands at showdown when raising how would you expect to win more without isolating first?

Perhaps showdown was the wrong word, I meant when or if the cards were shown I've noticed players in ring limping with monsters more than tourney's

Limping with monster hands can hurt you more than help you, especially in ring games. Unless you have a great read on your opponent, I wouldn't do it.

I've found that the people who play in 'Ring' games are alot more nitty than in tournys, especially the .25/.50 on up games---I dunno--maybe it feels more like their own money at rings than tournys! I also do ALOT at ring games than tournys---especially when I play opposite to the rest of the table!:smile:

I don't do it a specified percentage but if I get AA or KK in early position with no players entering ahead of me where there is one or mare active players after me I will limp in with the intention of re-raising if the pot is raised. Worst case scenario is that I end up in a pot with "6 limpers." If there is no raise for me to re-raise, then I am done with the hand unless I hit trips, flush or straight draw.

My decision preflop takes into account the number of callers, the action and amount of money in the pot before me, and my table image to that point.

If there is a decent amount of money in the pot or a lot of callers, I will generally come out strong no matter what, though I have to give special consideration to any big raisers ahead of me.

If there's not much action or money in the pot, my recent table image comes into play.

If my recent table image shows me as being somewhat aggressive anyway, I'll generally come out a little stronger than usual and it won't be suspicous.

If my recent table image is passive, I generally slow play and hope that my cards are still playable after the flop. If I have a passive image but come out strong before the flop the table generally turns into a foldfest and my cards have lost their value.

Under no circumstances do I want to be holding a monster at a time when four or five players see the flop (unless I flop the nuts, of course).

If the bet is made consciously, then any bet at any time is valid. However, sooo many players min bet, or limp UNCONSCIOUSLY, or out of piss poor play, that you want to make sure what you are doing. SO position, and reads are more valuable that what cards you might actually hold.

So for example, limping AA, first to act in late position encompasses a whole different set of conditions than trying to limp AA UTG. In either case the potential big pot usually blinds us and causes those slow play neurons to fire. So if you do limp monsters, You have to know your are capable of laying them down to the unfavorable flop action. If you can't lay them down, don't limp em!

I wrote all of that and could have simply said;

If you can't lay them down don't limp them.

I raise or reraise them period

Joe Slick said:

My decision preflop takes into account the number of callers, the action and amount of money in the pot before me, and my table image to that point.

If there is a decent amount of money in the pot or a lot of callers, I will generally come out strong no matter what, though I have to give special consideration to any big raisers ahead of me.

If there's not much action or money in the pot, my recent table image comes into play.

If my recent table image shows me as being somewhat aggressive anyway, I'll generally come out a little stronger than usual and it won't be suspicous.

If my recent table image is passive, I generally slow play and hope that my cards are still playable after the flop. If I have a passive image but come out strong before the flop the table generally turns into a foldfest and my cards have lost their value.

Under no circumstances do I want to be holding a monster at a time when four or five players see the flop (unless I flop the nuts, of course).

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:dito:

Exactly what he said - well put

Hmmm...

Generally speaking, you want to get max value out of pre flop monsters like AA and KK. That said, how can you expect to get max value out of these hands by limping into an unraised pot?

Assume that you are first to act, you limp and get 3 limpers behind you. Your AA or KK just lost significant value on the flop because you allowed 3 weaker hands to limp into the pot along with you, making your vulnerable to drawing hands, lower sets, 2 pair, etc.

I can only think of 1 circumstance where it would be a somewhat acceptable play to slow play PF monster hands. If you are at a LAG table and UTG I could see checking your PF monster with the intention of making a larger than pot size re-raise to any raise in the pot PF. The idea here is to sweeten the pot by getting liberal calls to the initial raise, and then take away pot odds for loose callers and try to isolate the initial raise in the hand. You don't want to take AA into a multi way pot post flop, because there are just too many things that can go wrong.

jamesdadeliverer said:

If you are losing hands at showdown when raising how would you expect to win more without isolating first?

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Thats exactly what I was thinking...Actually I don't really think there is a yes or no answer. There are so many variables at play here. Do you have info on your opponents, what size stack do you have and your position. If you raise too much you won't get enough action for your hand and if you limp, you'll be inviting anyone or worse everyone to play. Chances are If you have a monster like A's or K's I'm pretty sure the odds will be in your favor and you'll win more than you lose if you play it right. In my opinion if you want action without pushing people off a 3-5x the BB raise is good. And if you do decide to slow play and just limp, you better be ready to fold if you have too, thats the price you gotta pay if you wanna slow play. Gotta look out for the straight, and flushes, and actually worse the 2 pair. You can usually see a straight or flush coming but if you limped someone could have hit 2 pr on the flop with 38o and you'd never see it coming

i wouldn't limp with a monster hand unless i had a good read on the players

I have never in my life limped with 10 10 or better, and I'm sure I never will. Why wouldn't you want to get the pot bigger preflop when you likely have the best hand. Get half the table to call, then get them cracked makes little sense to me.

I never ever, ever, ever limp with big hands UNLESS it's late in the tournament and the blinds are big. Because otherwise, if you limp in there will be 3 or 4 donks right along wit you and one of them WILL hit 2 pair or trips. :smile:

lately i have been limping more than i used to because i feel that i can outplay my opponents post flop. at the stakes i play at, people have no respect and/or concept of what a raise means, so i just limp in 95 % of the time and make them pay on the flop, turn, or river. this is not the recommended way of doing things, but like i said, at the stakes i play raises are disregarded. later in the tourney, when blinds are higher, i will raise pf, but first hour or so, ATC is the norm for most players it seems.

qq

kmixer said:

The odea is to get the most value out of your hand. I will min raise in most cases before I would limp. Position matters a lot here. If I am late and hve all limpers I have to raise at least once with monsters like KKK and AA. I might call or check with QQ JJ or AK though. The next time I have this same hand I have to play it differently anyway....right?

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qq has always been my nemesis i normally raise it big then if a overcard comes out play cautious but if i think i have the biggest hand i tend to go big again. i think im gonna try checking it or calling like you said its just that i have so much history with this hand i can never figure out how to play it right. it always gets me into troble.

80% of time u raise them, 20% u limp. If u only raise with good hands preflop, then people will always get out of the way very quickly. But watch out, u can't get to many people in pot. U don't want to get outfloped (like people with 2 pair flopped)

It is a sin to limp with monsters.
Equivalent to child abuse.

^^^


Doesn't min raising come into that category as well?

Lemlywinks said:

^^^


Doesn't min raising come into that category as well?

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Yessss thank you I forgot about that. No min raising with monsters either.
limping/min raising= pure sin

depends on the players on the table if im going to limp! if there loose players i will limp in but if there tight players i generally like to raise it up a lil!