Lag vs tag

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davidhoyle107

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So, I've tried a lot of different styles. My question is, what is the most profitable way for tags and lags to out maneuver each other at a 6 or 9 max table. Should tags open up their calling or 3 betting ranges, or play normal. Should lags rfi more or less?
 
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Val may

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Its best trying to outplay your opponents, if there are really tight Players to your left I open my Rif to steal the blinds(it doesn't matter when u have k6o because they will fold almost anything and if they call I will just fold) so to this question yes the tighter the table the more you can open your rfi but don't overdo it.
But when I play against a lag i usually try to crush him post flop with a made hand. You can't really open you're 3 betting range because then you kind of going to be exploited very easily because he will know what you're doing (and then he has to play more tight because you kind of lose up).
You can of course sometimes 3 bet as a bluff but then choose your worst hands like KJo which u wouldn't really like to play. Then you can just fold if you get action don't waste hands you can see a flop with.
It's a hard question by you which can't be answered in a few sentences, but I hop you get my intention and you will figure it out by playing a lot against particular Lags/Tags.
 
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Iryna Stryzheuskaya

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I think that LAG should play post-flop very well. TAG is easier to play
 
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davidhoyle107

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Its best trying to outplay your opponents, if there are really tight Players to your left I open my Rif to steal the blinds(it doesn't matter when u have k6o because they will fold almost anything and if they call I will just fold) so to this question yes the tighter the table the more you can open your rfi but don't overdo it.
But when I play against a lag i usually try to crush him post flop with a made hand. You can't really open you're 3 betting range because then you kind of going to be exploited very easily because he will know what you're doing (and then he has to play more tight because you kind of lose up).
You can of course sometimes 3 bet as a bluff but then choose your worst hands like KJo which u wouldn't really like to play. Then you can just fold if you get action don't waste hands you can see a flop with.
It's a hard question by you which can't be answered in a few sentences, but I hop you get my intention and you will figure it out by playing a lot against particular Lags/Tags.
I guess I'm just thinking a tag has a much tighter range, so I'd be calling with hands that dominate a lags style. The gto move would be for the lag to just fold. If I get called, I still have showdown value. He only has to fold twice for a 3x pot 3bet to be profitable assuming I'm careful. Good lags know how to hit the fold button. I'm not referring to maniacs. This would be a lag with a relatively high fold ratio in comparison to maniacs. If it's a maniac, I just continue playing normal and slow play a made flop. Maniacs I actually loosen up a little.
 
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davidhoyle107

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I think that LAG should play post-flop very well. TAG is easier to play

I think it depends on the lag and tag. A good tag won't reach for the fold button every hand. A good tag will respect raises. Tags are maniacs post flop.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Im starting to realize poker strategy is only part raw showdown ev. It's a combination of showdown, fold equity, and exploitation.
 
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PapaDoc13

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Speaking individually as a TAG, it's simply a waiting game. Wait until you get a decent hand, depending on position, allow the LAG to remain aggressive with their marginal hands (more of which you likely beat) and kindly accept.
From my experience in NL2, up to NL10, you can get away with being more aggressive because they will call you down more often.
But of course, there's always the PS..

As a TAG, know when to get away. If you get the sign that they have it, sometimes, they really do. That just depends on the player tendencies.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Speaking individually as a TAG, it's simply a waiting game. Wait until you get a decent hand, depending on position, allow the LAG to remain aggressive with their marginal hands (more of which you likely beat) and kindly accept.
From my experience in NL2, up to NL10, you can get away with being more aggressive because they will call you down more often.
But of course, there's always the PS..

As a TAG, know when to get away. If you get the sign that they have it, sometimes, they really do. That just depends on the player tendencies.
A REALLY good lag will make more cash stealing your blinds than you make off them. They just fold every flop and raise fairly often.
 
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davidhoyle107

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A REALLY good lag will make more cash stealing your blinds than you make off them. They just fold every flop and raise fairly often.

At micro probably not a problem though.
 
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SpeedBump621

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Interesting topic. My experience has demonstrated the TAG will make most of his profits by calling/raising bets when a LAG gets a bit out of line.

The LAG usually does best by forcing the TAG out of his comfort zone and making well thought out bluffs and occasionally making a huge concealed hand that TAG pays off.

It's an interesting dynamic to watch 2 very skilled players go at it. The TAG and LAG seem to play more like each other as time passes.....it's very much an art that I'm attempting to improve at.
 
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It depends on a lot of aspects, you can't play just one way on a cash game.
Everytime you keep playing the same way, people learn how you play and make profit of that.
Keep changing!!
 
Twix

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I use Lag style. On preflop I doing bet 2-2,5 BB, no more. So I'm less attached to the bank in postflop game.
 
Serjo600

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respect for tag play, no respect for lag donkeys
 
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davidhoyle107

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I use Lag style. On preflop I doing bet 2-2,5 BB, no more. So I'm less attached to the bank in postflop game.

This is important. The tag normally won't be any less inclined to call a 3.5 or 4bb raise than a 2bb raise. That way you can fold every flop and still be profitable. The tag has to either open up his cold calling or 3 bet range to be profitable against you.
 
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davidhoyle107

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respect for tag play, no respect for lag donkeys

Okay. There's still a lot of highly profitable players at all stakes. Can't rule out lag as effective. I'm normally a tag. Unless im playing really passive loose fir or fold fish.
 
Twix

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This is important. The tag normally won't be any less inclined to call a 3.5 or 4bb raise than a 2bb raise. That way you can fold every flop and still be profitable. The tag has to either open up his cold calling or 3 bet range to be profitable against you.
My practice shows, what 2bb is more profitable then 3-4. Because so less players fold their hands.
 
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Napkins420

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Being a success as a LAG is to have a very good understanding of 2 things: position and putting people on hand ranges.

Lags are the most dangerous and the most profitable poker players. Yes TAG will win consistently and not take many big downswings, but they don't win much unless they are on a good streak.

People think lags are just maniacs, which is true for 90% of LAGS, but those that acctually know what they are doing will consistently punish the whole table
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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A good LAG will win more than a good TAG

A bad LAG will lose more than a bad TAG

Unless you are a proven long term winner playing TAG, dont try and play LAG, it will not end well.
 
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davidhoyle107

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That makes sense. Well pointed out

I'd agree. Being in more hands alone means your stats will be increased. Never mind the weak hands. Honestly, I prefer tag. But lag is just as good. It's a game of chess mixed with who can get away with what. Tags have to open up more. Lags have to fold to aggression. That's the difference between a lag and maniac. A lags pfr is much closer to their vpip than a maniac. Their fold to c bet is also higher.
 
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