Originally Posted by TheBowlBoy
Shoving is the only good 4bet sizing here. $6 = 37 bb which is a committing raise. I think its fair to say that we should not have a 4bet bluff range in this spot so we're never 4bet/folding. Villain's 3bet range most likely = his stack off range.
There are other draw backs of 4betting without shoving too. If villain flats we lose from so hands in his range when he c/f's flops that are bad for his hand. We can also get into some stupid/tough spots whenever an Ace flops.
Originally Posted by Campbell92
yeah, but we have KK we don't want to maximise fold equity do we.
I don't think villains range is purely stack off ranges, a few people when I played at that limit (not too many hands) squeeze folded OOP enough to make 4 betting > jamming imo.
I hope more people comment on this.
At R+B: Please post any reads or stats you have on villain.
IMO it will also be read dependent, if he had any. I am gonna hate having my 4 bet get flatted. We can 4 bet smaller and be able to get away from the hand if we feel we need to, or bet larger and be pretty much committed. A high, Q-J flops, all hit his calling range in a bad way for us.. I kinda dont really like either one. Of course if we think he shoves the top end of his 3 bet range, all we really care about is AA and are happy to call his 5 bet shove if we think he will oblige.
If we shove, it is such an overbet that could we possibly get called by hands that might fold to a 4 bet??