KJ KQ AJAT suit do you often 3bet

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puke

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do you often 3bet KJ KQ AJ AT suit oop. (maybe even ip)

What is your strategy against different type villians, (imagine they are not too loose, fold to 3bet is not very high, aggressive after flop.)


And what if you get called, what the strategy after the flop.I probably a little bit spew after flop. I tend to cbet or call to turn, as I know the villian usually like to bet flop air when you show weak.
Does that right. Can someone tell me, If I got called, does that usually mean I am behind.
The same problem when I have TT JJ even QQ.

I lost alot in that situation
 
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puke

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No one has replyed yet. seems it is not a easy question.
 
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BluffYou123

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I'm likely to 3-bet KQ/KJ/AT/AJ from the blinds against late position opens. Best done against more active players. You'll have the best hand quite often. I prefer to take the pot preflop in these situations but if called I'm c-betting close to 100% of boards.

TT/JJ/QQ I will mix it up, flatting and 3-betting depending on villain/stack sizes etc.

This is for tournament play. Are you asking in regard to cash games or tournaments?
 
Tanner1

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need much more information. is it full ring or six max, what are effective stack sizes, cash or tourney, table flow. these all factor into marginal decisions.
 
jaxpaboo

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Was reading BluffYou's post and was thinking this was my typical tournament play, but not my cash play.

My cash play a bit reserved. I like to start with little pots and then build them big after I hit my flop. My goal in cash game is to always double up.

In tournaments its to accumilate chips.
 
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puke

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six max 10nl. I hope you can offer different solution for other factors.


Hi BluffYou123, it is cash.I probably can not take your suggestion.Why I post here is that I found when I 3bet and especially cbet air, I lost too much.
 
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fletchdad

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As long as you have a reason to 3 bet, then it is legitimate. For example, you are in the SB/BB and the BTN opens if folded to him most of the time. If in the SB take BB into account first. There are so many situations, you just have to be asking yourself WHY am I 3 betting here, and if you have a legitimate reason, go for it.

Opponent type and your image (and are they aware of your image), as well as so many situational reasons, will need to be considered.
 
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puke

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I usually 3bet all the time. Because I do not know if call is good. Now maybe I will only 3bet oop.
I used to 3bet a lot.

As long as you have a reason to 3 bet, then it is legitimate. For example, you are in the SB/BB and the BTN opens if folded to him most of the time. If in the SB take BB into account first. There are so many situations, you just have to be asking yourself WHY am I 3 betting here, and if you have a legitimate reason, go for it.

Opponent type and your image (and are they aware of your image), as well as so many situational reasons, will need to be considered.
 
sam1chips

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it depends on what you think your table image is, as well as your opponent's playing tendencies. if you haven't played a hand in a while, a 3 bet wouldn't be a bad idea. if you're already playing aggressively, a 3 bet with a semi-marginally hand could possibly lead to a 4-bet push (especially if the opponent has a monster)
As it's been said a lot, it is definitely a tough problem, and I don't think there is going to be a definitive answer
 
fletchdad

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I usually 3bet all the time. Because I do not know if call is good. Now maybe I will only 3bet oop.
I used to 3bet a lot.


Whether or not to 3 bet will not depend on position alone. You will (and in the right situation, should) 3 bet IP. But a 3 bet from the blind vs a certain opponent can be very profitable. A button or CO 3 bet vs a certain EP player type - with equity - can also be good, as long as the players to follow also fit. Like I said, you need a reason, (not position). 3 betting when you are new at a table to build an image in certain situations is also sometime a good idea, but it will always be situational.
 
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puke

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You guys probably right. But it will not fit for me. From now on I will rarely do 3bet.I almost broken today.
I checked hud. It turns out I lost a lot when I 3bet and call 3bet. My 3bet is 3.6, I do not think it is too high, so it is just not fit for me.
I lost a lot when 3bet aq kq aj, as well as calling 3bet with aj aq.You see I already narrowed it. It just does not work
I have paid too much for it. It sucks. it is over.
 
dj11

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I'm primarily a tourney guy. Unfortunately, I have taken my tourney game to ring, where the dynamics are different.

I much prefer the small ball approach, but maybe even smaller than that. I relentlessly limp along, preferring the trap. Once I am sure the table sees me as weak passive and fishy, I have them right where I placed them. Of course I understand they are stealing a lot of hands from me, I let them in many cases. I will make it up.....

That is what I prefer. Obviously doesn't happen all the time. And when rake is involved, I am probably a B/E player. But every now and then things go as swimmingly good as the have gone totally terrible.

All the while I haven't made seriously drastic changes to my game which seems to be pretty good for small MTT's.
 
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My thought process for whether to 3bet or flat any hand goes something like this:

a) Can I 3bet for value? If so then I pretty much always do that since I will stand a better chance of winning villains' entire stack.

If no then...

b) Can I profitably flat this hand profitably vs villains range? With the hands that OP is asking about I'm usually only flatting these hands against aggressive players opening from MP-BTN. If they open from EP then I am more likely dominated and will get into more trouble spots than I'd like to.

If not then...

c) Can I profitably 3bet bluff this hand? The answer to this will often be a yes since broadway hands like KQ, AJ etc have blockers to big hands like QQ+/AK so when you bluff with them it should work more often. Its important to note that we should be 3bet bluffing with only the top of our folding range. How many hands we do it with really depends on the ratio of bluffs:value you can get away with. Against nits that fold a lot to 3bets that ratio will be really high while against fish you'll want your range to be pretty much all value.

Another interesting spot comes up when a TAG opens to 3bb in MP a fish cold calls in the CO and you're BTN with a hand like ATo. Our hand here is pretty borderline for flatting. Probably -EV though it depends a lot on different factors such as your skill edge over the other players. In this spot we can often squeeze with the intention of bluffing the TAG (getting him to surrender his equity in the pot) while isolating and getting value from the fish who can have a really wide range here.
 
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bremensha

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depends on your opponents, stack sizes and buyin.
Playing an event with more than 10 $ buyin I would only 3bet having a premium hand. 3betting against a fatstack without a premium hand out of position is the worst you can do. Being the fatstack I would probably 3bet them all.
 
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puke

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I think my problem is not I 3bet too much. My problem is when they call or I call 3bet. I lost alot after flop.
I told myself to give up after we saw the flop. But I just can not leave it. I can not control myself. That is why I need to stop.
It is a disaster for me.
I need to take a break of it

My thought process for whether to 3bet or flat any hand goes something like this:

a) Can I 3bet for value? If so then I pretty much always do that since I will stand a better chance of winning villains' entire stack.

If no then...

b) Can I profitably flat this hand profitably vs villains range? With the hands that OP is asking about I'm usually only flatting these hands against aggressive players opening from MP-BTN. If they open from EP then I am more likely dominated and will get into more trouble spots than I'd like to.

If not then...

c) Can I profitably 3bet bluff this hand? The answer to this will often be a yes since broadway hands like KQ, AJ etc have blockers to big hands like QQ+/AK so when you bluff with them it should work more often. Its important to note that we should be 3bet bluffing with only the top of our folding range. How many hands we do it with really depends on the ratio of bluffs:value you can get away with. Against nits that fold a lot to 3bets that ratio will be really high while against fish you'll want your range to be pretty much all value.

Another interesting spot comes up when a TAG opens to 3bb in MP a fish cold calls in the CO and you're BTN with a hand like ATo. Our hand here is pretty borderline for flatting. Probably -EV though it depends a lot on different factors such as your skill edge over the other players. In this spot we can often squeeze with the intention of bluffing the TAG (getting him to surrender his equity in the pot) while isolating and getting value from the fish who can have a really wide range here.
 
dj11

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I think my problem is not I 3bet too much. My problem is when they call or I call 3bet. I lost alot after flop.
I told myself to give up after we saw the flop. But I just can not leave it. I can not control myself. That is why I need to stop.
It is a disaster for me.
I need to take a break of it

OK, I offer you an exercise that will reaquaint you with the fold button.

Do it with Play Money, do it for 30 minutes every day for a week. Use it as a warm up if you need to justify it.

Fold EVERY hand you are dealt, yes, you are losing play money......meh.

If you actually do this, and I doubt you will, at the end of that week, no hand will mean so much to you that you have to go busto with it.

Point is to break a bad habit, and in poker that means you have to actually USE THE FOLD button.
 
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puke

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Good idea. I think I have too much ego which is not fit for the game

OK, I offer you an exercise that will reaquaint you with the fold button.

Do it with Play Money, do it for 30 minutes every day for a week. Use it as a warm up if you need to justify it.

Fold EVERY hand you are dealt, yes, you are losing play money......meh.

If you actually do this, and I doubt you will, at the end of that week, no hand will mean so much to you that you have to go busto with it.

Point is to break a bad habit, and in poker that means you have to actually USE THE FOLD button.
 
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I rely on preflop raise %, position, stack sizes, and fold to 3bet% to be my guide. If opener only open raises 4% I am only 3 betting AA & KK, possibly folding KK to shove if we are deep. If opener is nit reg, I am focusing on his fold to 3bet stat and our posiotion. If he opens late and I have posiotion and he has a high fold to 3bet I will raiser any playable hand. If his fold to 3bet is 70 or below I will only raise with big pairs, AK, and if I am ip & we are deep stacked occasional small suited connectors.
Vs. Tags I loosen a little more to include suited broadway; again if they are not raising early, and if fold to 3bet is around 80%+.
Vs. LAG I only raise with big pairs and AK; I want to shut them out early with those hands. Otherwise I flat and look to trap with a big hand.
Vs. Loose Passive Fish I only 3 bet Big hands. They usually have a big hand to open raise.
I 3 bet liberally from BB vs frequent steamers with high fold to 3bet rates.
I also 3bet multiway raised pots slightly more liberally because I usually only have to make the opener fold to pick up a lot of dead money.
Lastly, if any opener raises > 10% total and has a fold to 3bet over 80% and is in MP2 or later, I feel comfortable 3 betting very wide; if they fold the flop frequently I will C bet nearly 100%. For me, the increased variance is a small price to pay for the frequent medium pots I have stolen.
 
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puke

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Thank you. This is the most detail thought I ever seen here.
You are right.
The play after the flop is important to me. I hope I am not too spew to make the stolen worth.

I rely on preflop raise %, position, stack sizes, and fold to 3bet% to be my guide. If opener only open raises 4% I am only 3 betting AA & KK, possibly folding KK to shove if we are deep. If opener is nit reg, I am focusing on his fold to 3bet stat and our posiotion. If he opens late and I have posiotion and he has a high fold to 3bet I will raiser any playable hand. If his fold to 3bet is 70 or below I will only raise with big pairs, AK, and if I am ip & we are deep stacked occasional small suited connectors.
Vs. Tags I loosen a little more to include suited broadway; again if they are not raising early, and if fold to 3bet is around 80%+.
Vs. LAG I only raise with big pairs and AK; I want to shut them out early with those hands. Otherwise I flat and look to trap with a big hand.
Vs. Loose Passive Fish I only 3 bet Big hands. They usually have a big hand to open raise.
I 3 bet liberally from BB vs frequent steamers with high fold to 3bet rates.
I also 3bet multiway raised pots slightly more liberally because I usually only have to make the opener fold to pick up a lot of dead money.
Lastly, if any opener raises > 10% total and has a fold to 3bet over 80% and is in MP2 or later, I feel comfortable 3 betting very wide; if they fold the flop frequently I will C bet nearly 100%. For me, the increased variance is a small price to pay for the frequent medium pots I have stolen.
 
duggs

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I'm primarily a tourney guy. Unfortunately, I have taken my tourney game to ring, where the dynamics are different.

I much prefer the small ball approach, but maybe even smaller than that. I relentlessly limp along, preferring the trap. Once I am sure the table sees me as weak passive and fishy, I have them right where I placed them. Of course I understand they are stealing a lot of hands from me, I let them in many cases. I will make it up.....

That is what I prefer. Obviously doesn't happen all the time. And when rake is involved, I am probably a B/E player. But every now and then things go as swimmingly good as the have gone totally terrible.

All the while I haven't made seriously drastic changes to my game which seems to be pretty good for small MTT's.

early tourney play pre antes with stacks over 80bb is essentially the same as cash as far as 3betting goes.
 
duggs

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OK, I offer you an exercise that will reaquaint you with the fold button.

Do it with Play Money, do it for 30 minutes every day for a week. Use it as a warm up if you need to justify it.

Fold EVERY hand you are dealt, yes, you are losing play money......meh.

If you actually do this, and I doubt you will, at the end of that week, no hand will mean so much to you that you have to go busto with it.

Point is to break a bad habit, and in poker that means you have to actually USE THE FOLD button.

An alternate is to have someone sweat you which stops you spewing via your ego,
 
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