Keep losing with top pair high kicker

jomaaan

jomaaan

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?
 
D

Dani_California

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?

I know the feeling! Top pair is hard to fold but I truly think you should start doing it sometimes. The bigger the pot gets, the better your hand should be and one pair is just not enough. It's especially hard at those stakes when the players are mostly clueless about the game and might have basically anything but that's exactly why I would wait until I am the one who has at least two pairs and then attack. I'm not saying you should fold that hand every time: it depends on the situation as well but if the pot is getting too big, you should let it go and wait for a better opportunity.

I took my time to learn that and lost money along the way but when I look at it now, I'm pretty sure that learning to fold top pairs has saved me a lot of money. Believe in your instincts as well. Just like you said: you know that they have something so start believing in that feeling ;) Good luck!
 
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PKRNRS

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?
Where do you play at? I need to be at your table. Until you learn to fold a single pair then you will always be losing money. Yeah he could have a weaker ace, A3, A5, also AK, AA, AQ as well AJ. Your raised then checked, also a sign of weakness. Your calling on the other streets is ok if its not to steep. Top pair and 2 pair are the worst hands to play in my opinion and should be avoided when you get a lot of action. It always smells fishy.
 
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jomaaan

jomaaan

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Thanks for the fast reply!

I guess ur right, I noticed that folding a top pair doesn't nearly feel as bad as losing an all-in haha, knowing that it might be the best play.
 
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PKRNRS

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Thanks for the fast reply!

I guess ur right, I noticed that folding a top pair doesn't nearly feel as bad as losing an all-in haha, knowing that it might be the best play.

Also understand when you play a hand like this that you are still expecting to hit the flop hard, as in at least two pair, Broadway or flush draw. That's the biggest points missed with these hands. Also 3BB raise in a cash game can be consider light.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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In NL the bigger bets are on the turn and river.

Having the best hand pre-flop and on the flop doesn't help you very much if you lose massive bets later. There is no prize for second place at cash games.

Low limit games are about making good hands and getting good value from those who have not mastered these concepts.

Good luck to you! :D
 
xkenjix

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Biggest mistake micro stakes players make is over-valuing tptk(good kicker). While im not saying it isnt a strong hand, too often they dont understand pot control. limiting the size of the pot with a marginal hand. limit the size of your losses with marginal hands and try to get good value for your two pair+ hands
 
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titiduru

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?

Okay, you are losing money that way, but how many times are you making money the same way? Poker is not a game where you can win all the time, and top pair top kicker is how you make most of your money in poker. Making tough folds is hard and requires a lot of experience, and until you get to that level you should just shrug your shoulders and lose money when you encounter 2 pair or better. In my opinion, folding top pair top kicker when it is the best hand is a bigger mistake than calling and losing when it is the second best.
 
OI7TuMuCT

OI7TuMuCT

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I'm with AA, KK lost more than once) Today, playing against the guy who always went all-in, I got KK, he has 5 6, the flop falls K 2 3, then 4, 5. It was a shame.
Similarly, my girl lost with AA, against 10 7. On the table lay 10 7 and another trash card, except A =)
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Suggest taking notes on players.

You need to know which ones will stack off with top pair no kicker and which ones will have 2 pair or better when they raise the flop.
 
TheNutz4You

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Lots of players over value TPTK for sure. I've done it myself many times before. but as I have learned more, I really study the bet sizing and actions of villain on earlier streets, the runout of the board and how it fits in with the range I give to the villain. Most of the time top pair to kicker will be good in a 2 or 3 way pot, but gotta be able to lay it down when something smells fishy.
 
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Tricky123bet

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How you should play your TPTK depends on opponents as well. Against a really aggro opponent check-calling all the way down lets him make all the mistakes by bluffing too much. Against a passive opponent you want to bet TPTK, since they will make more mistakes by calling with a lot of worse hands. If a passive fish reraises or bets big into you on the turn or river, you can be pretty sure that your TPTK is no good.
Against decent regs with a TAG or LAG style of play, you should definitely be a little more aggressive with TPTK, but aim to check back either turn or river, because they will rarely give you 3 streets of value with a worse hand than yours.
You should still play TPTK with confidence though, because even if it gets cracked by two pair or trips sometimes, it's a good hand that should make you money in the long run.
 
froggeedogs

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getting beat

A while ago I had KJ pre-flop and raised. One caller. Flop was KK and maybe a 10. I bet all in to discourage any one going for the str8 and he called. Guess what he had? pockets 3's. I was ecstatic and wondered who in their right mind would call with kings on the board..........And of course the river came a 3 so he got the boat!
 
BenjiHustle

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I agree with a previous post; you shouldn't be checking when you hit your top pair here. You need to be aggressive which will give you the opportunity to pot control and forces them to raise or fold if their hands are polarized and doesn't allow them to take a stance against you. You're playing scared and that's a losing strategy every time. Also, it sounds like you're playing out of position too often based on you putting yourself OOP in a general statement where you check your top pair post-flop.
 
Masi2197

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These things happen a lot what you must do is to minimize these factors being a little aggressive, raising the bet so your rivals with trash hands will retire and increase your success with pair and high kiker
 
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EvE2K

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You need to keep attention on the player that you face. You know in this situation he had a set of 555, but i,m sure on 0,01-0,02 stakes people can bet with an Ax or even bluff with nothing. I,m sure, you can find lots of donkeys on that limit. So that time this was just a little unluck. I,m sure next time your opponent will have weaker hand and you will win.
 
Amanda A

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Trips can be hard to spot. Easier to lay down your hand in the face of a flushy or straighty flop.
 
eberetta1

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?

You are just gaining experience, playing and noticing a trend. A goal in poker is to lose as little as possible with a losing hand and to win more of the big pots. That being said, I try to keep top pair to smaller raises, getting my bigger money from hands that do not cost much until the showdown. From the river, I assume top pair does not win, so not to push so hard as a nut hand that I would play more aggressive on the river.
 
Dorugremon

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Hi there,

Im playing micro stakes 0.01/0.02 cash games and things are going pretty well until I hit my top pair vs a three of a kind or a 2 pair. I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board. I know the guy has something but i could be a Weaker ace. I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets. On the turn and river he bets again and i call.
Guy shows 55.

This is how I lose most of the time. I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe. Should i be doing something different or am i just having bad luck or something?

Not really enough information here for a definitive answer, but I do see potential problems here:

"I raise 3BB he calls. Then i check, he bets".

After a 3BB open and a call, you need to be c-betting an (A,3,5) board, even if you missed completely. Now's not the time to be giving up the initiative. Of course, he will call your c-bet if he flopped a set. That's a rare occurrence as a pocket pair flops a set of better ~11% of the time. If you think he has a weaker ace than (AQ) you definitely want to be betting, not giving him a cheap shot at two pair.

"I just thought he probably would have folded with 33 or 55 so i felt kinda safe".

Bad assume here. For a 3BB open, (3,3) or better can easily call, especially if he thinks there's a good chance he'll get paid if he trips up. He can make that call even if he doesn't trip, hoping to snap off a Big Slick that whiffed and gets stubborn on the flop, turn, and/or river with desperation bluffs.

"I just can't fold AQ on a A358J board".

That's why you got called by pocket fives. :D The A Number One mistake I see all the time is overplaying with TP/overpair hands. You can play this hand very strongly at FLHE where it only costs you a few bets when it loses, not your entire stack. TP2K isn't the same thing at no-limit, and needs to be played cautiously. Yes, that means you will get bluffed off the best hand, but you know what they call a player who can't be bluffed, don't you? How do they do?

If you lead the flop, he calls. You lead the turn and he's still calling, you need to consider what he could have on the river that you can bet that he'll still call. What do you beat here? (A,T) (A,9) and that's about it. If he was slowplaying TPTK here, you were beat all along. Ditto for all sets and the (Ax) hands that hit their kickers. If he was chasing with (A,J) he got there. Your TP2K hand is essentially a bluff catcher by the river, so can he bluff with enough frequency in that ragged board to make a river call profitable? That comes only with knowing how your opponent plays. Last week, I had a similar situation with an (AK) that flopped TPTK. On the end, the vill checked and I checked back. He cussed me out in chat for ruining his check-raise :D :D :D :D Because of the run-out and the vill, I knew all I could beat was a bluff, and I didn't figure he'd be pulling off any river bluffs as I'd never seen him try it.

With lone pairs at NL, you need to consider pot control to keep the pot small, especially when deep. Small bets or min-raises if you figure this will slow him down. Check back if you don't believe this will work, even if it means giving a free card to straight or flush draws. When deep, your priority is stack protection, not hand protection. If a free card gets him there, them's the breaks. Fold and move on, which you can't do if you don't have a stack.
 
dbchristy

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If you dont fold the winning hand occasionally , youre calling too much..Kid Poker:)
 
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