Just had a huge argument At A Home Game

Alright I had A9s on button, everyone before me folded including the SB and the BB raised (Which was just another blind because he was shortstacked) to go all-in. He flipped AhKd.

Being a home game we like to make our all-in's as interesting as possible.
The flop came :

Qs Js 10h


My mate started jumping around saying he had flopped the nuts. But I had the flush draw and a king would split the pot. I didn't catch either and he stayed around a while, we proceeded to an argument which lasted the rest of the tournament of the meaning of the nuts.


He says the nuts is when you have the best hand at the time with present available cards. While I argued that the nuts are when you can't be beaten at all, no draws, no nothing.


Who is right?

No, you're right. He did not flop the Nuts. If it had been, say [qc] [jd] [10h], then maybe; but even then, if a K comes up you have the straight and it's a split pot. So no way did he flop the nuts. You are right BoTY.

I would refer to the straight he flopped as the 'nut straight'. but especially in that situation, being that you were on a better 'nut flush' draw, i would not, personally, call the straight he had to be what is commonly refered to as 'the nuts'. so what i'm saying is, you're right, at least in my opinion, for what it's worth.

-n

You are right BoTY, tell him to learn the meaning of the "Nuts"

Well my opinion of the thing is that your friend is correct. Without looking at hole cards, the nuts is the best possible hand with the present available cards. In this case on the flop the nuts is the nut straight. Now if the board pairs on the turn for example the nuts changes to quads.

Just done the odds on Cardplayers calculator and Hw was 60/40 Favourite to win the hand. Hardly the nuts.

I think it varies a little, but I think the concensus is that your friend is correct. 4. (adj) In hold 'em, pertaining to the best possible hand at a given point in a pot;

BoTY said:

He says the nuts is when you have the best hand at the time with present available cards. While I argued that the nuts are when you can't be beaten at all, no draws, no nothing.


Who is right?

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He is.

tenbob said:

Well my opinion of the thing is that your friend is correct. Without looking at hole cards, the nuts is the best possible hand with the present available cards. In this case on the flop the nuts is the nut straight. Now if the board pairs on the turn for example the nuts changes to quads.

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But how can that be when he still had a flush draw and an A-high straight draw to either win or split the pot. I thought the "nuts" was when there were no other cards that could bet you, period (taking into account that you still have to draw for the Turn and the River).

Yeah the nuts is the best "possible" hand at that point and he had it. Future cards might very well change the best possible hand but the nuts is considered the best possible with the available cards right then not what the hand could become. Hopefully that clears it up.

Well once again I'm wrong. The way I've always thought of it is that if you were playing on the TV you have the nuts when they give you that tick next to your name.


Cheers for clearing up though guys. Gotta go see him hat in hand tomorrow now...

We've had this question before - xdman, dorkus and tenbob may be right, but I dont know how you can refer to a beatable hand as "the nuts". That just doesn't make sense to me?

technically speaking, the nuts is the best possible hand at that particular point. therefore, the nuts can change. note that "best possible hand" does not completely equate to "unbeatable." think of pocket aces: "best possible" hole cards in holdem preflop, but *hardly* unbeatable, as im sure we all know too well. the nuts on a rainbow flop QJT is AK. if the flop had two to a suit, i would argue that the AK of that suit would be the nuts, since you have both the nut straight and the nut flush draw. i think the "absolute nuts" is the term for a truly unbeatable hand.

bit o' trivia, not sure if anyone knows: the term "the nuts" came from back in the gunslinger n saloon days. if you had what you thought was an unbeatable hand, you would bet the nuts from your wagon's wheels as proxy for your wagon. surely, if you were betting your ride, you thought you had that pot won. so when you "bet the nuts," you were betting with the best of it.

I think it is a question of summantics. Poker lingo is also something that is unofficial. Here are a couple of definitions from the foremost poker dictionary by Michael Wiesenberg:

Nuts: 4. (adj) In hold 'em, pertaining to the best possible hand at a given point in a pot; usually followed by flush or straight, sometimes by high or low

Nut Hand: In a given situation, an unbeatable hand.

So in this situation, the nuts was the straight, but the nut hand was the flush.

robwhufc said:

We've had this question before - xdman, dorkus and tenbob may be right, but I dont know how you can refer to a beatable hand as "the nuts". That just doesn't make sense to me?

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Nuts = best possible hand at the time
Stone Cold Nuts = best possible hand irrespective of any board cards that still have to be dealt

Why doesn't it make sense? It's just an expression, after all.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

Nuts = best possible hand at the time
Stone Cold Nuts = best possible hand irrespective of any board cards that still have to be dealt

Why doesn't it make sense? It's just an expression, after all.

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thaaaaaats the other phrase i was trying to remember. i knew there was a weird idiom for the "absolute" nuts. stone cold nuts = unbeatable. yep.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

Nuts = best possible hand at the time
Stone Cold Nuts = best possible hand irrespective of any board cards that still have to be dealt

Why doesn't it make sense? It's just an expression, after all.

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Why would anyone make an expression for a hand that is "the best possible hand at that time but could be beaten if an opponent gets a better one when subsequent cards are dealt".That's what I dont understand. Not getting into an argument about it, just don't think theres any justification in calling a hand "the nuts" when it's clearly not "the nuts".

robwhufc said:

Why would anyone make an expression for a hand that is "the best possible hand at that time but could be beaten if an opponent gets a better one when subsequent cards are dealt".That's what I dont understand. Not getting into an argument about it, just don't think theres any justification in calling a hand "the nuts" when it's clearly not "the nuts".

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i agree with you rob, but clearly this is a subjective phenomenon, and certainly not one that i plan to argue about either

-n

The meaning of the word nuts can be interpreted different at certain stages of the hand. If you FLOP the nuts for instance, then yes, you have the best hand on the FLOP. Of course this hand will usually hold up but it does not mean he is 100% fav and has THE NUTS.

The actual NUTS would be for instance a player holding AA and the flop comes AA2. Now he has THE NUTS as his hand will hold up no matter what the turn and river brings.

So you friend is actually right that he had flopped the nuts, but he does not actually have THE NUTS

Strange and confusing when you write it down but it does make sense......I think!!

But if the Flop was AA2, Someone could draw out a royal flush if I'm not wrong..

BoTY said:

But if the Flop was AA2, Someone could draw out a royal flush if I'm not wrong..

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Yep you're right. You'd have the nuts, not THE NUTS, absolute nuts or stone cold nuts!

The way I've always thought of it is that if you were playing on the TV you have the nuts when they give you that tick next to your name.

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when you watch poker on TV and they put a check mark by the players name . that does not mean they have "the nuts."

it just means they can not be beat.

not every hand that wins a pot is the nuts.

the nuts to me is the best of any given hand.

Ace high flush is the nut flush.

Ace high straight is the nut is the nut straight. etc..

but it doesn't matter . you can flop the nut flush, and still get beat by a full house or whatever. but you still had the nut flush.