Isolation

ZZFLOP

ZZFLOP

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Let's say you have a large stack, a small stack shoves and a medium -sized stack is yet to act.

Do you always raise to get heads-up with the ss or is just calling and letting the other player enter the hand also an option.

In other words do you always protect your strong hand or can you try to extract more value by letting the medium stack enter the pot.
 
kingsup23

kingsup23

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It depends on if you KNOW you have the best hand or you THINK you have the best hand. It also depends if your in the money or close to it. If your in the money EVEN IF YOU HAVE ACES. JUST CALLLL!!!!! This way maybe this guy has J7 offsuit but he has pot odds to call. 2 people have alot better chance to knock out one then just heads up! And when it comes to being in the money your goal is to make as much money as possible so why not move up one in the money rung? Especially if your a big stack. Hope ive been of help!
 
GSpicoli

GSpicoli

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Like kingsup said, It does depend on you're position in the tourney, game whatever. Most of the time I will try to push people out with my marginal or even better than average hands. I just don't want to have some donk beat my jacks with 9 7 offsuit. I try to raise if I think that I have a good shot at winnibg the hand, but then again I tend to be TAG.
 
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reb0202

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depends!!!

I have found that you bet what you are willing to lose all to many times in on line poker that under dog will win with some off the wall stuff just to keep them in the game the more rake the site can get the more they make. But someone has to win the pot right if you have a controlling chip stack taking a chance some times pay's off big.
 
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MnA22

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It depends on if you KNOW you have the best hand or you THINK you have the best hand. It also depends if your in the money or close to it. If your in the money EVEN IF YOU HAVE ACES. JUST CALLLL!!!!! This way maybe this guy has J7 offsuit but he has pot odds to call. 2 people have alot better chance to knock out one then just heads up! And when it comes to being in the money your goal is to make as much money as possible so why not move up one in the money rung? Especially if your a big stack. Hope ive been of help!

I disagree with your point on the aces.

If you are have a nice stack, but still want to continue winning chips (which you're going to have to do to win the tournament) then for the love of god raise. If you limp, or just call the raise with your strong hand you're allowing those more marginal hands to enter the pot. Just for example, we'll say 56o. If you don't raise and you let this hand enter the pot, they've got 15% chance to beat out your aces.

Now, if you raised the pot, in the money....anyone with half a brain would fold and you would be in a position with AA against another big PP.
 
the_urge27

the_urge27

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this is a tricky spot-but if you have a large stack and have a hand like AA KK QQ JJ AK-i say just shove it all in-any lower pair than that i would just consider calling as pocket pairs like 10-88 can be vulnerable and miss the flop-u have to pick your spots when u isolate or else u can find yourself doubling 2 players---the_urge27
 
EvilGenius

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There are a couple of things to consider here.

1) Standing in the tournament. If you are the big stack, that is only one part of the equation. Are you close to the money? Are you already in the money? How much of your stack is it going to cost you to call the all in bet? How much of your stack is it going to cost you to reraise the size of the pot to try and eliminate any other callers?
2) Etiquette. It is widely considered a standard play that if you smooth call and get another caller in the hand, you should check down the hand through the river in order to have the best chance of eliminating the all in player.

With those things in mind, I would say generally speaking that it is the best play to re-raise in this spot in order to have the all in isolated and eliminate a 3rd hand from beating you post flop. There are very few instances where I think that a smooth call would be appropriate.
 
Huck45

Huck45

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I read all of these and mostly aggree with the last poster.
If you are the BS and have one of the top 10 hands or so, you should push. Trust me, that medium stack will get out of the way. If I have an all in in front of me and a caller, I'll fold queens.
Case in point: Played in a FT 45 plyr $26 token tourney last night. Final table, Small stack pushes, Chip leader goes AI, medium stack (7500) goes AI with AKo. Chip leader knocks them both out with pocket 10's. The guy w/ 7500 failed to make the money. Yours truly, on a smallish stack cashes.
Checking it down is as much common sense as it is ettiquette. If you hit the flop hard, then bet and the other caller will get out of the way, but on a three way pot with one plyer AI, it should be checked down or risk a barage of insults on your chat.
 
Babynut

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I think you should raise to keep the medium stack from entering the hand. You should play heads up with the ss.
 
GordonStr222

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It all depends who your opponents are if its a real tight opponent i would probably raise if its a loose opponent i would keep him hope of making a hand..... and also depending on how strong your hand is............. kings and up welcome action no more than 3 players for me...........
 
Exit141RTe1

Exit141RTe1

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I would push a little more than min raise. But, what would I know. I had the exact same hand and five carsds later I'm left wondering how I got myself in this mess.
 
FatBasset

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The last time I just called the shorter stack pushed and I just called with AA, the BB called with K-9 suited and took a big chunk of my stack when a nine on the river gave him a set. So I'm not a big fan of trying to get more people in the pot.
 
ActAsIf

ActAsIf

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IMO...
I'm not so sure about the medium stack folding QQ in this spot. You could make an arguement that the big stack is pushing light to isolate, and the medium stack has found the perfect opportunity to double up from the big stack. Even if the short stack wins the main pot, you've got the opportunity to win the huge side pot.
I think the big stack should push with a premium hand AK, QQ or better, or just re-raise the medium stack an appropriate large amount (with a slightly worse hand) as if the small stack wasn't even there. The psychology of this play has to tell the medium stack that you really have something here and want his chips too, leading him to fold junk here.
 
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I find it hard to isolate a player when playing online. There seems to be somebody that will enter the pot with everything they have because of the size of the pot. I won't try it as much online.

Live I try to isolate the small stack when I have a strong starting hand.
 
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