Incorperating Donk bets into my play.

Deco

Deco

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I never donk bet on a bluff.
I only ever donk bet for value on boards my opponent is not going to c-bet.

*Are the cases were a donk bet bluff becomes preferable to a checkraise bluff?
*Are the any other cases were a donk bet may be useful for value other than as stated above?

I recall there was recently a thread on this, heck it may have even been started by me but i cannot remember nor find it
 
BLieve

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Not sure what you mean by donk bet. Are you talking bout making your bet seem like a bluff when you really have a strong hand? For example heads up its check check check check ALL IN...

I think donkbets works well with players on tilt. But Im a nice guy so I just value bet them. And a lot of the times you lose value if villain folds. I think 10NL is the last level where this will ever work in your favor.
 
Deco

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Deco

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zachvac said:
But basically biggest thing you want to consider is how will your opponent react to it. Then exploit that.
Click to expand...

The idea I'm toying with is that in dry boards passive players would fold to me.
However a check raise would achieve the same result.

As for betting for value to induce a raise I can't see how this could work out in my favour as I;d need to 3bet.
Check raising doesn't nearly represent as much strength as a donk/3bet.
Also check raising can be balanced with my check raise bluffs.
 
zachvac

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Deco said:
The idea I'm toying with is that in dry boards passive players would fold to me.
However a check raise would achieve the same result.
Click to expand...
How often will they cbet? If they check behind and pot control with marginal hands donking can be a way to put pressure on them. If they're cbetting a ton then you're right just c/r those boards as bluffs and ch/c or ch/r or w/e for value.
Deco said:
As for betting for value to induce a raise I can't see how this could work out in my favour as I;d need to 3bet.
Check raising doesn't nearly represent as much strength as a donk/3bet.
Also check raising can be balanced with my check raise bluffs.
Click to expand...

Start donk/3-betting as a bluff more. It's really awesome and you can get a really cheap price on it because on the surface it seems super-strong. Then when they see you do it as a bluff start taking the same line with sets and watch them 4-bet shove air on you :).
 
kidkvno1

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Ok, i got one, to ask. What if you call the open air bet, and you find out that he was pushing from the button with AK, and you only have bottom pair with an ace as a kicker!! <<<<< donk bet :)
"when you have AK, and raise with it 3x the BB, that you should c-bet the flop" But if one called you, and he has pp, hits a set on the flop, then your screwed...
Deco, that's what you mean with donk bets. ^^^^^

Originally Posted by BelgoSuisse
There's no arguing whatsover. Donk betting is defined as betting out of position into the player who raised at the previous street. It's a definition, not something you can argue about.
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Why do we even do it then??? and what happens when your in Position, or just out of position??
 
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c9h13no3

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Start donking flush draws/OESD's/gutshots/bottom pair against passive villains who don't c-bet, and against aggressive villains who are crazy enough to raise you with air we get to bet/3-bet them sometimes as a bluff with those same hands. Bet/3-betting looks stronger than a check/raise, and you can usually get a better price on your bluff.
 
kidkvno1

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c9h13no3 said:
Start donking flush draws/OESD's/gutshots/bottom pair against passive villains who don't c-bet, and against aggressive villains who are crazy enough to raise you with air we get to bet/3-bet them sometimes as a bluff with those same hands. Bet/3-betting looks stronger than a check/raise, and you can usually get a better price on your bluff.
Click to expand...
Ok, that makes more sense, now.
 
Deco

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So as a general rule I should be check raising my air and donking my draws/ bottom pairs?
Why the bottom pairs?

I like the sound of doing this with draws. Check raising I've never been comfortable with as if called my hand becomes transparent when I check the turn whilst a 3bet is hardly great either.
I take it we 3bet the light raisers and call the passive players.
 
DFirstBishop

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It really doesnt make much sense to me to c/r or c/b a gutshot or a low pair at all. Flush draws or open ended may make sense to me on the flop; which if u do on the flop would only make sense to 3bet in order to not show weakness. But the odds are so much better. I believe I find plenty of hands to bluff with some kind of odds. Way to many to have to bluff on air at least until the blinds are really worth stealing in an mtt. I really dont know how to play very well in a situation like this on a cash table. The only way I really make any money on the cash tables is if I catch cards. Maybe I should work on that.
 
c9h13no3

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Deco said:
So as a general rule I should be check raising my air and donking my draws/ bottom pairs?
Why the bottom pairs?
Click to expand...
On a dry board, you can often treat them as a 5 out draw. Against passive players they have no value as a bluff catcher. But you can donk them for protection/as a bluff. Course, we shouldn't really be in spots where we have bottom pair OOP, but it happens on occasion ;).
Deco said:
I take it we 3bet the light raisers and call the passive players.
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Yep. Some players are aggressive enough to raise donk leads pretty light, so bet/3-bet smallish (like 3-->10-->26) is a great way to get fold equity plus a good price on your bluff.
DFirstBishop said:
Flush draws or open ended may make sense to me on the flop; which if u do on the flop would only make sense to 3bet in order to not show weakness.
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Players will call you down lighter as well if the board is drawy. While you have less actual equity with a hand like 45 on a 62Q rainbow board, if an aggressive TAG that doesn't raise most top pairs raises your donk lead on the flop, you will have more fold equity with a 3-bet than if the board were drawy.
 
Deco

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I'll try a few Donk bets out today perhaps even post them here.
Thanks for the advise all.
 
zachvac

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c9h13no3 said:
Some players are aggressive enough to raise donk leads pretty light, so bet/3-bet smallish (like 3-->10-->21) is a great way to get fold equity plus a good price on your bluff.
Click to expand...
FYP
 
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